Line 6 Helix Stadium

[ian_dissonance]

Yea I guess that’s right what was I thinking that for 2200$ it should sound better then the hx og.. my bad

How. Would. You. Know. From. A. Clip?

 

[sashimi]

Yea I guess that’s right what was I thinking that for 2200$ it should sound better then the hx og.. my bad

HX OG sounds great in 2025, as good as anything else out there. At this point the difference is going to be the stuff you can’t hear in a clip.

 

[AlbertA]

How. Would. You. Know. From. A. Clip?

 

[Sascha Franck]

HX OG sounds great in 2025, as good as anything else out there. At this point the difference is going to be the stuff you can’t hear in a clip.

You possibly could, but it'd possibly really be almost "semantics", so to say.

Anyhow, as said, for me personally, pretty much any of the other improvements are vastly more important, maybe most notably the onboard editing. In case I'd ever get a Stadium (unfortunately not too likely in the foreseeable future), I could pretty much imagine this to be the reason to go for the vanilla version, as I could slap it onto a music stand and never ever use any editor at all. Given all currently available information, onboard editing looks as if it'll actually be vastly superior compared to using an editor.

 

[paisleywookiee]

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO KNOW THEY SOUND BETTER IN A CLIP ON YOUTUBE?

They could put 10 clips from Helix and 10 clips from Stadium up and randomize them and just say they were one or the other and you would never know.

I dunno man, it was pretty easy to determine the Kemper from the real amp in the other thread. maybe clips do matter?

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I believe DI said something like he ‘heard the sound of agoura modeling coming down the hallway from his office and knew it was an improvement or a real amp’

So clips or video of someone with credibility experiencing and confirming it would sell a few hundred units for sure. Send Pete Thorn and a few others one and let’s get on with it!

 

[ian_dissonance]

I dunno man, it was pretty easy to determine the Kemper from the real amp in the other thread. maybe clips do matter?

That’s because the Kemper sucks. And most people couldn’t tell which was which, they could just tell it was different. A couple of them even liked the Kemper better. Which is my point. All you’re getting from clips is if there is a difference, especially if they did something stupid like go amp for amp between the modeling engines. They could mislabel them in the video and Tim would like the Agoura clips that were actually HX clips better, lol.

 

[paisleywookiee]

That’s because the Kemper sucks. And most people couldn’t tell which was which, they could just tell it was different. A couple of them even liked the Kemper better. Which is my point. All you’re getting from clips is if there is a difference, especially if they did something stupid like go amp for amp between the modeling engines. They could mislabel them in the video and Tim would like the Agoura clips that were actually HX clips better, lol.

Maybe I’m just biased. In terms of preference, not tubes.

 

[GTR37]

I believe DI said something like he ‘heard the sound of agoura modeling coming down the hallway from his office and knew it was an improvement or a real amp’

So clips or video of someone with credibility experiencing and confirming it would sell a few hundred units for sure. Send Pete Thorn and a few others one and let’s get on with it!

It was the first time he heard Agoura
He went to find out why someone was playing a JCM800 cranked down the hall in the middle of the day
And found it was a computer playing back the 800 model

 

[ian_dissonance]

I believe DI said something like he ‘heard the sound of agoura modeling coming down the hallway from his office and knew it was an improvement or a real amp’

So clips or video of someone with credibility experiencing and confirming it would sell a few hundred units for sure. Send Pete Thorn and a few others one and let’s get on with it!

Yeah, I’d actually find that of some value. I don’t even need to hear them playing it. Just full-frame facial expressions while they mess with the unit, lol.

 

[I S]

The new audio engine, as great as it is, is the least interesting thing about Stadium! If audio clips are all you’re after then I think this product ain’t for you. You’re going to be sorely disappointed once the YouTube clips are out. Might as well start bitching in the forums now, get it all out, so that we can get a nice and pleasant launch in the Fall.

Go on…

 

[molul]

The new audio engine, as great as it is, is the least interesting thing about Stadium! If audio clips are all you’re after then I think this product ain’t for you. You’re going to be sorely disappointed once the YouTube clips are out.

So true. I can't speak for all Stadium future owners, but I'd bet what we're mostly looking for is the new footprint (especially with the non-XL model), the new UI, Showcase...

However, the thing I currently want to know the most is when it will be available in Europe and how much it will cost.

 

[Orvillain]

The new audio engine, as great as it is, is the least interesting thing about Stadium!

I couldn't disagree more really.

Helix was always a smidgen behind Fractal in terms of audio quality, latency, aliasing performance, and modelling chutzpah. I'm far more interesting in knowing more details in those areas than I am the new showcase and X/Y features, for example. Not that I wouldn't use them, but those alone don't convince me to upgrade to a Stadium.

If the Stadium Agoura modelling is some next level shit (and I have every reason to believe it will be) then my Axe FX 3 may very well end up on eBay.

 

[mikah912]

I couldn't disagree more really.

Helix was always a smidgen behind Fractal in terms of audio quality, latency, aliasing performance, and modelling chutzpah. I'm far more interesting in knowing more details in those areas than I am the new showcase and X/Y features, for example. Not that I wouldn't use them, but those alone don't convince me to upgrade to a Stadium.

If the Stadium Agoura modelling is some next level shit (and I have every reason to believe it will be) then my Axe FX 3 may very well end up on eBay.

Fair point on the technical aspects (aside from "audio quality" - not sure what you mean there). I want to know more about that too, and I'm looking forward to those details being revealed as launch nears.

Modeling Chutzpah is pretty vague, but I'll repeat what I always say having owned all of the major platforms: None of them have better amp models across the board. Each of them has some I think are done more realistically and better sounding than their competitors.

I'm extensively shooting out my FM9 and Helix right now, and it only reconfirms that Line 6 got almost all of the major food groups right as of 3.8. Fractal will always have them beat in terms of depth/diversity/selection across every category but bass amps. I don't think anyone disputes that, but that also matter less and less to me. If anything, I try to avoid the virtual amp collecting like the plague because it's antithetical to productivity.

 

[Sascha Franck]

If anything, I try to avoid the virtual amp collecting like the plague because it's antithetical to productivity.

Absolutely the same here (and true for both home and live usage). Once I found 2-3 suitable amp and cab combinations (in general I need 2, one for dirts, one for cleans, the rest is done with pedals), I tend to just stick with them for a pretty long time. I usually only fool around with different amps when something new is coming my way or when I feel bored. But whenever I just feel like playing, practising or recording, I never fool around but stick with what I know best. Feels familiar, I know how to utilize sounds and what not.

 

[Orvillain]

Fair point on the technical aspects (aside from "audio quality" - not sure what you mean there). I want to know more about that too, and I'm looking forward to those details being revealed as launch nears.

Audio quality == objective improvements over the regular Helix platform. Signal to noise ratio, dynamic range, etc.

Modeling Chutzpah is pretty vague, but I'll repeat what I always say having owned all of the major platforms: None of them have better amp models across the board. Each of them has some I think are done more realistically and better sounding than their competitors.

I don't really agree to be honest. Take the QC for example... a lot of the amps don't really sound like the real thing. They sound crafted, hyped, post-processed, and far enough away from every day references, that it did bother me.

Helix has an air of squirrels/artifacts about the amp models that Fractal doesn't have as well. I'm really hoping Agoura closes that gap.

I'm extensively shooting out my FM9 and Helix right now, and it only reconfirms that Line 6 got almost all of the major food groups right as of 3.8. Fractal will always have them beat in terms of depth/diversity/selection across every category but bass amps. I don't think anyone disputes that, but that also matter less and less to me. If anything, I try to avoid the virtual amp collecting like the plague because it's antithetical to productivity.

Yeah I getcha. I'm less fussed about having hundreds of amp models these days. I just want a few super high quality ones, because ultimately if it isn't as good as connecting an amp to a loadbox, then for me it is a waste of time.

 

[EOengineer]

I'm less fussed about having hundreds of amp models these days. I just want a few super high quality ones, because ultimately if it isn't as good as connecting an amp to a loadbox, then for me it is a waste of time.

This is pretty much what it distills down to for me. I’m using zero amp modeling for recording because I’m experiencing better results with my amp -> Suhr RL.

Quality > variety.

Above all else, Stadium needs to come to the table with more modeling realism or it’s not going to stick around here. I’m a huge supporter of modeling but I have way too many nice tube amps and effects here and less patience than I used to have when trying to get shit done.

 

[mikah912]

Audio quality == objective improvements over the regular Helix platform. Signal to noise ratio, dynamic range, etc.


I don't really agree to be honest. Take the QC for example... a lot of the amps don't really sound like the real thing. They sound crafted, hyped, post-processed, and far enough away from every day references, that it did bother me.

Helix has an air of squirrels/artifacts about the amp models that Fractal doesn't have as well. I'm really hoping Agoura closes that gap.

I'm going to need to see some citations on the signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range comparisons.

Also, the "Helix has an air of squirrels and artifacts" is old FUDspeak. Call up any recent amp with gain involved (e.g. Bogner Ecstasy, Orange Rockerverb, JCM 800 2203, 5153, etc.) and let some notes ring out. It's a natural decay that sounds like what comes out of my FM9. Any crackling is the real life crossover distortion I hear on both platforms.

Every time Sonic Drive Studio does a blind shootout and makes people record their guesses on which is which, it's a complete mishmash, indicating that there is no crackling signature or lowered quality that gives Helix away versus Fractal when run through an identical signal chain. Or listen to Leon Todd's 2203 shootout between all of the major platforms.

I'm excited about Agoura, no doubt, but the HX amps (as of 3.8) already rate with the best modeling on the market. Fractal has lots of flavors they don't and they offer far greater tweakability and granularity. But the quality has been there, man.

 

[Orvillain]

I'm going to need to see some citations on the signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range comparisons.

Not sure what you mean?

Also, the "Helix has an air of squirrels and artifacts" is old FUDspeak.

@MirrorProfiles and I were discussing this a while ago. When we do blind tests, we're mostly able to pick out Helix from everything else. There's something in the high frequencies that makes it jump out. I'm not saying it cannot sound good.

Call up any recent amp with gain involved (e.g. Bogner Ecstasy, Orange Rockerverb, JCM 800 2203, 5153, etc.) and let some notes ring out. It's a natural decay that sounds like what comes out of my FM9. Any crackling is the real life crossover distortion I hear on both platforms.

I have one right here, and I'm very experienced with the Helix. I stand by what I said.

Every time Sonic Drive Studio does a blind shootout and makes people record their guesses on which is which, it's a complete mishmash, indicating that there is no crackling signature or lowered quality that gives Helix away versus Fractal when run through an identical signal chain. Or listen to Leon Todd's 2203 shootout between all of the major platforms.

It is a fair point. But maybe consider that this is not what those results indicate. They could indicate that those guitarists don't know what to listen for when it comes to identifying flaws in digital systems. Perhaps.

I definitely hear an annoying thing in the high frequencies for Helix amp models that after some time starts to grate on me.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Not sure what you mean?


@MirrorProfiles and I were discussing this a while ago. When we do blind tests, we're mostly able to pick out Helix from everything else. There's something in the high frequencies that makes it jump out. I'm not saying it cannot sound good.

I have one right here, and I'm very experienced with the Helix. I stand by what I said.


It is a fair point. But maybe consider that this is not what those results indicate. They could indicate that those guitarists don't know what to listen for when it comes to identifying flaws in digital systems. Perhaps.

I definitely hear an annoying thing in the high frequencies for Helix amp models that after some time starts to grate on me.

Disembodied distortion strikes again.