Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[MirrorProfiles]

Here's what I would say:

OG Helix does not sound close to your Jet City at all to me. I've gone over and over them back and forth, and OG Helix is as far away in the other direction from the real amp as Agoura is. Agoura is brighter, a bit more cutting, but there's also a low frequency fuzz component that your Jet City doesn't have. OG Helix is darker, with softer transients than both Agoura and the real amp, and it has a fuzz component too, but almost like the amp is being boosted with a fuzz; whereas in Agoura it sounds like the fuzz is coming from the poweramp.

But I honestly don't think this is a meaningful comparison. Comparing these models to a Jet City amp - no matter how much it is modified to be closer to a true SLO100 - is just fraught with too many circuitry differences.

I’ve used enough models of SLO’s to know where they tend to sit. Helix was not perfect, but it was good and only needed some refinements to close the gap. Opinion here, but I think the JCA SLO sounds as close to the emulations as any two Soldano’s would. Hell, it’s closer in circuit to an original SLO than a BAD reissue anyway. I’m willing to cast a wide net for accuracy and pot tolerances etc.

We can look at this another way - rather than me demonstrating that the SLO isn’t accurate, why doesn’t someone show that it is? All the pushback I’ve received just circles back to “it feels more amp like, I like the tone more, it’s easier to dial in”. All positive attributes but nothing that does anything to prove accuracy.

 

[Orvillain]

“it feels more amp like, I like the tone more, it’s easier to dial in”

I've certainly said nothing of the sort. I've not even said that I think Agoura is more accurate. In fact I believe I just explicitly said that they're both not accurate to your amp clip.

But I Just do not think the comparison methodology is particularly useful, nor valid.

My position is - we don't know enough about Agoura and how it works under the hood, and we don't know enough about how Line 6 develops their amp models and tests them, in order to really judge. It sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[Orvillain]

As an aside, I should've bloody bought one of those HDM's when I had the chance. I did have the JCA100 for a bit, but I hated how the distortion channel bled over into the clean channel. Big boogers.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

My position is - we don't know enough about Agoura and how it works under the hood, and we don't know enough about how Line 6 develops their amp models and tests them, in order to really judge. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Total agreement here. All I’d add is - all we can do is judge the results we get from using them. We don’t really need to know what goes into the sausage if things taste the way we expect.

The end result deviates a lot from my expectations (both here and in other comparisons), both from what I’m used to from Line 6 and also based on what other top models are doing and where the general consensus is. It’s interesting because it’s not what I expected at all.

 

[Orvillain]

Back when I had two VH100R's sat next to each other, one with EL34's and one with 6L6's, I didn't really expect them to sound that different. But the difference was huge. It wasn't subtle. The 6L6 one sounded more metal out of the box, and the EL34 one sounded more rock out of the box. The mids characteristics both in terms of tonal balance but also distortion character, where completely different.

It was quite an eye opener. And thus far, I'm not hearing anything in the SLO that couldn't be explained by such a physical hardware difference.

Because I know at least a little bit about the DSP behind this, I can say some things for certain. If you oversmooth the nonlinear solver, you get high frequency rolloff. If you get a filter coefficient wrong, you can filter frequencies you didn't mean to. If you use a median filter to average out data, you can blur transient response.

So when I hear a particular characteristic, like a subdued high frequency region, I cannot help but wonder if one of these types of things are at play. That's just how I think about it.

The end result for me - taking all analysis out of it - isn't much more complicated than turn up gain, turn up volume, cut mids, cut bass, boost treble and presence.... does it do what I expect it to do based on what my real amps do? If it doesn't, something is broken.

Those Laney VH100R's ... if you boost the presence on them full whack, the amp will oscillate like a bastard!!

 

[Chocol8]

but they also shouldn't be that far apart.

That is not a safe assumption if they were physically different amps.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

That is not a safe assumption if they were physically different amps.

Of course, it's assuming that Line 6 have a single golden reference SLO that all their models derive from. There's a chance they have more than one amp, including one that has a unique circuit/mods. If the other models didnt deviate much from their older models, then I think it would suggest maybe it's a different amp. But the difference between Legacy and Agoura doesn't just align to this one amp.

Either way, it's too hard to say one way or another as to what's causing the difference. All we know is there is a difference.

 

[EOengineer]

Can’t wait for all the fun debate we’re going to have when an Agoura Recto eventually shows up in the wild. I better start limbering up.

We can look at this another way - rather than me demonstrating that the SLO isn’t accurate, why doesn’t someone show that it is? All the pushback I’ve received just circles back to “it feels more amp like, I like the tone more, it’s easier to dial in”. All positive attributes but nothing that does anything to prove accuracy.

Wouldn’t hold my breath. We have a bunch of Mesas and Marshalls floating around here between us reamp guys, but I’m not aware of anyone here owning an SLO and Stadium, let alone the same version of the amp L6 uses, whatever that may be.

L6 used to divulge specifics about there reference amps and that seems a bit more under lock and key now.

 

[contrario]

It's very concerning that Line 6 hasn't shared a statement about this yet because this is what keeps me from buying a Stadium.

Every comparison between the real amp, HX and Augora sounds very different and HX models seem to be more accurate in most of the comparisons such as 5153.

I agree with Ed on this. If they've modeled the same amp, the difference shouldn't be that dramatic. Augora should sound and feel better but not too different.