Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[HomespunEffects]

Can you really not hear the difference in the clips that were just posted?

Yeah, they sound like someone changed the mids control.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Maybe start by backreading the thread a bit so you don’t look like such an asshole.

Yeah, I’m so glad i came back here. It was a mistake. Won’t make it again.

 

[EOengineer]

But that’s not how Line 6 has described Agoura - it doesn’t seem to be a “evolution” but a from the ground up new modeling engine. In that process it’s probably much more likely to have introduced a bug than if they had opted to refine the existing modeling.

But I’m not hearing / experiencing the Agoura modeling as flat, though. On the contrary, it’s much more dynamic and chewy, and has no weird distorted decays that rendered quite a few models useless to me in Helix.

I hope they fix the SIC or whatever is causing the lack of highend. But selfishly also hoping it won’t change the feel/response of the amp too much

With some of us digging into Agoura so hard it probably seems like we’re ripping it a new one, but there’s a ton of evolution in Agoura IMO. I still find it to feel most like plugging into a tube amp out of anything I have in the digital domain. The playing dynamics feel incredible and seem to be wider/more varied. I’ve also noticed Agoura responds to boosts and drives more realistically. These are each significant iterations in the technology.

There’s just this pesky thing we keep picking at. It’s so close.

 

[Lysander]

Now in this video, they match up much closer.

Honestly, the audio quality in that video is so bad it's hard to even tell them apart. Who shoots out modelers though a room mic?!

 

[EOengineer]

Yeah, I’m so glad i came back here. It was a mistake. Won’t make it again.

I mean…I value your input. We’ve had perfectly reasonable interactions on most things. Just seemed like you came in here wanting to dunk on people who are investing their nights and weekends to try and help move this conversation forward. That’s confusing.

 

[EOengineer]

Who shoots out modelers though a room mic?!

I’m not sure why this seems to be getting more prevalent. At times one really could make the case that we’re rapidly devolving.

 

[Lysander]

I’m not sure why this seems to be getting more prevalent. At times one really could make the case that we’re rapidly devolving.

Huh? I'm not throwing shade here - i'm legitimately having a hard time telling one device from another in that video, let alone judge which one sounds better.

I'll take the guy's word on all three sounding/feeling good.

 

[EOengineer]

Huh? I'm not throwing shade here - i'm legitimately having a hard time telling one device from another in that video, let alone judge which one sounds better.

I'll take the guy's word on all three sounding/feeling good.

It’s all good. I’m just saying I’m confused by how frequently we see demo comparisons from room mics.

 

[Elf]

but there’s a ton of evolution in Agoura IMO. I still find it to feel most like plugging into a tube amp out of anything I have in the digital domain. The playing dynamics feel incredible and seem to be wider/more varied. I’ve also noticed Agoura responds to boosts and drives more realistically. These are each significant iterations in the technology.

This is very cool to hear!

I can hear the differences in the posted MK2C+ samples but I’m more interested in the Plexi, 5150 and Double Rec. family of amps, have people encountered the same sound similarities in those Augora amps?

 

[Mongillo19]

Plexi, 5150 and Double Rec

There is no Ag. Model of the Dual Rec. People are hating on the Plexi but idk if it's an accuracy issue or just the model they picked to emulate. I didn't like the 5150 III blue or red models either as they were the 100w versions. I much prefer the 50w.

 

[JiveTurkey]

The Cali rectifier is a HX 1.0 amp and my favorite in the Stadium. As dumb as that may sound.

 

[Fireproof]

Y’all over here all “too dark,” “too much high end,” “properly wank,” “those comparisons sound pretty close,” “those sound totally different,” “I liked Agoura better,” “I liked fractal better…”. LOL.

I’m over here just jamming and playing the Stadium and getting sounds that are more than great enough for me and having fun. Loaded a couple songs on it, killed all but bass and drums and just jammed and riffed over it. Super cool that it’s easy to do directly on the device. Good times.

No offense to anyone that cares about the accuracy or how they compare and all that. I know that’s what these gear forums are for (in part)!

Just a friendly reminder that it’s fun to just dial in something and play…. If you are in to that sort of thing! Ha.

 

[ccc118]

This is very cool to hear!

I can hear the differences in the posted MK2C+ samples but I’m more interested in the Plexi, 5150 and Double Rec. family of amps, have people encountered the same sound similarities in those Augora amps?

I'm pretty sure I'm one of the only people on here that likes the Plexi. I recently tested out a demo of the UA Lion plugin and thought it was very similar, so that would give you an idea of what it sounds like.

 

[OG-T]

Can you really not hear the difference in the clips that were just posted?

The difference only matters if you're listening with your eyes. Try to get the amps to sound the same regardless of settings, then we can discuss this stuff.


Do we need the Big Dick song posted again?

 

[EOengineer]

The difference only matters if you're listening with your eyes. Try to get the amps to sound the same regardless of settings, then we can discuss this stuff.

If we are going to chalk these differences up to variances in the actual modeled amps, then why is it that the Fractal models so consistently resemble the real amp clips while Agoura is consistently divergent from both the real amp AND the Fractal models? Are we to believe that Fractal just happens to choose amps that sound like the amps us forum members own while L6 has totally different sounding versions?

This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Mongillo19]

Id absolutely be more about "well who cares if it's accurate if it sounds good" if this wasn't a $2400 out the door product. That's a chunk of change.

Not to discount the other cool features of the Stadium but tone is my #1 priority

 

[MIJLOVER]

With some of us digging into Agoura so hard it probably seems like we’re ripping it a new one, but there’s a ton of evolution in Agoura IMO. I still find it to feel most like plugging into a tube amp out of anything I have in the digital domain. The playing dynamics feel incredible and seem to be wider/more varied. I’ve also noticed Agoura responds to boosts and drives more realistically. These are each significant iterations in the technology.

There’s just this pesky thing we keep picking at. It’s so close.

I’m all for pushing to make this the best it can be, but I’m glad you’re pointing this out, because it has been a bit overlooked.

At the end of the day, that’s hard to get across in clips. So if Line 6 figures out the bug in the SIC or whatever this proves to be, maybe that will put those on the fence at easy.
Right now, quite a few seem apprehensive about picking up the Stadium, not only due to bugs but also these findings, and imo, it would be a shame not getting to experience Stadium.

But it’s a long road ahead, so I’m sure people will come around as the platform stabilizes and matures a bit.

 

[dean701]

Fractal SPDIF levels are weird. They're always too bloody loud. I wouldn't be so sure that Stadium is doing anything wrong. Nor Fractal tbh... but on my Axe FX III, to get a unity gain signal, I have to set my SPDIF level to -18dB.

Aha.
Out of curiosity I'm wondering if you saw similar.
I had my vp4 on fw4 and I had to boost my spdif out to be level with the input of 0db. Then with 4.01b2 the levels changed for me drastically. I spoke with fractal and they confirmed that the input scaling for both SPDIF and USB has been modified.

 

[HotRats]

Only listed with my phone and even through it the difference is shocking.
It's not a matter of being darker or whatever, this is just plain wrong sounding.

I can't believe this is how Agoura new modelling is supposed to be, it makes no sense to me.

I'm more inclined to believe that there's a huge bug somewhere that is screwing up things.

Took a listen again in my studio and, neeldess to say, I confirm yesterday's comment plus I'll that the amp sounds much better.

Again the difference is too big and abusurd to be what the model is supposed to sound even if is not an exact match.

 

[Vicarious]

We all know that you can get a Mark 2C+, Mark III, Mark IV, Mark V, or Mark VII ..... set it to the highest gain channel... choose a mode.... cut the channel EQ lows... boost the mids and highs.... then on the graphic EQ, boost the lows, cut the 750hz slider, boost the highs... and get a fat as fuck sound.

The fact it is a real struggle on the new 2C+ on Stadium, coupled with the darkness of the 5150III amp, coupled with the overall sensation of dullness across all of the high-gain amps .... it paints a pretty bleak picture for Agoura amp modelling to be honest.

Genuinely - I wanted to be a fanboy. I wanted to sell my Axe FX III. I wanted to evangelize about this thing. But I just can't. I've not turned it on in a week. I can't bring myself to do it. I just don't really like how the high-gain stuff is sounding, and I don't really know where to go from here. I'm well outside my return period, otherwise I would return it.

^This is exactly how I feel. Exactly.

I'm returning mine. I had an issue with the expression pedal (weird dead zone), so I would return it anyway as defected, and then I thought to myself:
Do I really want to replace it with another XL stadium?
Fearing that the issue with the expression pedal is a manufacturing problem and will be facing it again some time in the future, at first I decided to return it and pre-order the non XL version. No on-board Expression pedal, no scribble strips, fewer thing to risk of failing in the future, that will affect the re-sale value of it. Cheaper, so much easier to sell it as used in the future, much lighter and smaller. I don't really need 4 fx loops and 2 instrument inputs, a/b & c/d external controls is very nice but I can live with just one expression and switch my amp's channels with a midi relay if i'll really really need both.

The following days I realized that I didn't really miss stadium. At least anymore than the OG helix I sold to fund the stadiums purchase.
Key factors for this:

I liked the wifi connection. Did not have many issues. Do really need it? No. My desk is close, running a cable is not a problem for me, using the device as a daw requires a cable anyway so, I could live without it.
Same with Update over wifi.

Touchscreen is a very nice feature. But I have the unit in the floor in order to change snapshots etc so I use the app anyway. Bending over all the time is something i hate, that's why I loved the edit mode in the og helix.

Showcase. I loved it. I loaded stems of songs over wifi, muted the guitar track, and programmed the stadium to change snapshots for the different parts. I enjoyed it especially in some songs with a lot of sound changes such as tool songs with different overdrives, delays on/off, and effects on/off, for only a bar. I think they should also add the ability to activate/de-activate an effect in a song or change the values of it within the same snapshot. Like activating a wah and program the movement of it in a solo. It took me a lot of time and a lot of bending over to do the programming and place the change of snapshots at the exact time because there is a little delay between the changes, and because you can't do it via the app currently. Also had many crashes and bugs, but the result was really satisfying. Like having a guitar tech backstage. Also Sharing the songs could be a nice Idea, but a little difficult due to copyright I suppose.

But I would not rely on showcase in a live situation with a full band, only in a one man show situation and only if the bugs are completely sorted out.
Will I miss it? Maybe, but I can do the exactly same thing by connecting my hx stomp to my pc and using gig performer. Also this way I can even move the wah in the solo sections by midi. And organizing it in songs setlist etc.

Focus view: cool idea. It gives you an idea of what everything does. In some cases I wasn't happy with any of these 5 default settings though. It would be very cool if changing the values of an effect or an amp would also rotate the actual knobs in the image, and not just having a static picture to look at.

About the xy axis feature: Ok kind of cool, but realistically how are we supposed to use it live? I mean if the unit is in the floor, should we bend over to use it? This thing can only work if you have the unit in a stand and use showcase for everything else.

I think that a usefull feature they can add, is the ability to link the screen with a phone or tablet. That way you can use your phone to control the stadium, and touchscreen isn't even needed! Also the stadium remains in the floor.

So it all comes down to tone, feel and amps. For my style of playing (high gain stuff), stadium did not do well.
I liked the revvs. And the cali 2c++ (kind of). But in my case (hot output active fluence pickups), it took me a lot of tweaking to dial-in a sound I liked, and even then, the feel it was a little strange. It had a cocked wah sound and feel. More organic and more dynamic that OG helix, but still. I felt the same way with the legacy amps, so I don't think it's agoura, but something in the inputs? I had better results with passive pickups, or the fishman's passive voicing. But still the mid honk was there. I kind of missed my og helix a little bit.

I liked the two channels in the same amp feature, but in some cases there was a pop sound tiny gap between changes.

I wanted the amps to sound great right away, with minimal tweaking, And not having to add comps, eqs, etc. And I really don't care about how close the modeled amp sounds to the real thing. I just want to like the sound.

If it wasn't the issue with the expression pedal I'm not sure If I would keep it or not. Probably I would, and be patient about it waiting for line6 to fix stuff. But all things considered, I'll probably not even pre-order the Non-XL for now. Maybe I will buy it in the future. When things are sorted out, and the device is stable, and updated with all new features. Made some backups. I haven't turn on stadium for days. And I really wanted to like it.

For the time being, i think will miss fiddling around with something new to me. So I went ahead and ordered a used fm3 MK II from reverb, at about 20% cheaper than new. It will be my first fractal product (Any advices?). I 've always heard nice things about fractal, but did not want so bother with tweaking that much, or option paralysis etc.. Then I realised that I was already tweaking too much with stadium in order to get a nice sound.

I wanted to compare it with stadium before deciding if I'll preorder the non XL. Fm3 will be shipped tomorrow.
I know that fm9 would be a closer match, but considering that fractal will announce new products some time this or next year, it seemed like the right choice. It still leaves me room to buy a non stadium XL or a stadium Stomp in the future.

p.s. Sorry For the long post and my bad english

p.s.2: I made some videos about the pedal issue in order to show the dealer the problem. I'll also post it here for anyone interested: