Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[JiveTurkey]

Same. It’s just a big flex.

It's not. There would be no amp modeling if there weren't, you know; amps in the real world to model.

I don't tube roll in FAS but I do tweak bright caps as I see fit as well as use the baked in amp block boosts. The whole "I played amps and they suck" crew that you find out once played a 50 watt Mustang or Catalyst one time for 5 seconds at a rando GC can certainly comment regarding accuracy or how end users don't need anything but Fisher Price world but I don't think there's any weight to their opinions.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I’ve played and owned lots of real and never once thought that I should change tubes or mod the amp. That group is a niche within a niche.

It's All A Niche™

 

[AlbertA]

Well the DSP talk got me curious,

Here's some interesting tidbits

• On paper, Helix Stadium has roughly 2.5-3x the MIPS as Helix Floor
  • In the same post - there's an implied use of Analog Device's DSPs, which makes sense.
• Pure MIPS-wise, at least on paper, Stadium spits out notably more cycles than either FM9 Turbo or QC
• If you route path 1 into path 2, yes it adds latency.
  • AA: This to me indicates there's at least two separate DSPs.
• NXP and FPGA mention

I believe Helix Floor uses two ADSP-21469 SHARCs at 450MHz and the FM9 Turbo uses two ADSP‑SC587 at 500Mhz.

Also the Helix Stadium copy says

When it comes to processing power, the Helix Stadium XL and the Helix Stadium are essentially identical. Both models boast enhanced DSP power, a dedicated GPU, a machine-learning accelerator, and FPGAs, all topped off with fresh 64-bit floating-point architecture.

So taking those tidbits, I'm gonna play "guess which processors does the Helix Stadium use?" (we shall know soon enough).

A quick search at AD and NXP sites, maybe these?

• Two ADSP-21593's for DSP maybe at 800Mhz
• NXP i.MX 8M plus for the Application SoC
  • My search was mainly "which NXP SoC has an NPU (ML accelerator) + GPU"

 

[EOengineer]

It's not. There would be no amp modeling if there weren't, you know; amps in the real world to model.

I don't tube roll in FAS but I do tweak bright caps as I see fit as well as use the baked in amp block boosts. The whole "I played amps and they suck" crew that you find out once played a 50 watt Mustang or Catalyst one time for 5 seconds at a rando GC can certainly comment regarding accuracy or how end users don't need anything but Fisher Price world but I don't think there's any weight to their opinions.

I’ve rolled tubes in every amp I’ve owned. I’ve also changed bright cap values and in several cases installed switches to allow alternate bright cap values. My 1959 and 2204 both have several bright cap values available.

Ultimately I think some of us here just have wildly different needs/contexts for our gear usage, and may never fully see eye to eye.

I’m not evangelizing those parameters having to exist to compete against fractal. I’m just saying users looking for that level of specificity are unlikely to migrate to a platform that lacks it if they are coming from one that offers it.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I’ve rolled tubes in every amp I’ve owned. I’ve also changed bright cap values and in several cases installed switches to allow alternate bright cap values. My 1959 and 2204 both have several bright cap values available.

Ultimately I think some of us here just have wildly different needs/contexts for our gear usage, and may never fully see eye to eye.

We all have different needs certainly.

For me; this also kinda of veers back to the post earlier about whether the Stadium has additional oversampling over the original Helix. I mean; how would you sell this otherwise? For me; I'm used to rubbing two sticks together and rummaging through the stone tablets of the FAS interface so upselling me on a touchscreen alone isn't going to happen.

Every new feature/change can be considered a deal maker/breaker at this stage of gear overload. It just has to matter to you enough to make that leap. Or not enough. Or you need to go full Gasp as I feel like I'm doing with this. Lordy does this thing need to get released already

 

[AlbertA]

It's All A Niche™

Its Niches all the way down - a fractal of niches if you will.

 

[EOengineer]

We all have different needs certainly.

For me; this also kinda of veers back to the post earlier about whether the Stadium has additional oversampling over the original Helix. I mean; how would you sell this otherwise? For me; I'm used to rubbing two sticks together and rummaging through the stone tablets of the FAS interface so upselling me on a touchscreen alone isn't going to happen.

Yeah I know DI has stated that aliasing was a front and center concern in developing Agoura, so it’s likely a safe assumption that there’s significantly better performance there.

I’ve not seen clear confirmation that the current gen Hx amps have additional over sampling in Stadium. It was suggested by one of the devs but they were unable to confirm.

 

[Jarick]

I’ve rolled tubes in every amp I’ve owned. I’ve also changed bright cap values and in several cases installed switches to allow alternate bright cap values. My 1959 and 2204 both have several bright cap values available.

Ultimately I think some of us here just have wildly different needs/contexts for our gear usage, and may never fully see eye to eye.

I’m not evangelizing those parameters having to exist to compete against fractal. I’m just saying users looking for that level of specificity are unlikely to migrate to a platform that lacks it if they are coming from one that offers it.

That times a million.

The only time I rolled tubes was when I was using a THD Univalve and had a box full of different preamp/poweramp tubes to check out. it was interesting to hear the differences but 95% of it was just slightly different gain or volume levels. I was running it through the same 4x12 cab and playing with the same guitars and pedals.

Almost all of what I like about Fractal are the effects. Things like the Eventide Micropitch style dual detune, or big clean stereo chorus, or having a good amount of control over stereo delays, etc. Because most modelers will cover all the ground I need for amps and with a little EQ you can typically get where you need. As the effects unique to Fractal are ported into devices with much better UI, the need for the Fractal keeps dwindling for me.

That's where Stadium just needs the Micropitch added

 

[Elf]

Here's the thing. We don't expect—nor would we want—Helix Stadium to be a Fractal killer. We want Fractal to do well because they're a good company who designs and develops on their own terms. They're good for the digital market.

We need a @Digital Igloo Anger Translator™

ChatGPT: “OKAY, LISTEN UP! WE’RE NOT OUT HERE TRYING TO BURY FRACTAL IN A SHALLOW TECH GRAVE—EVEN IF THEY ARE OUR COMPETITION AND KEEP BREATHING DOWN OUR NECKS WITH EVERY NEW RELEASE! BUT FINE, YES, WE WANT THEM TO ‘DO WELL,’ BECAUSE IF THEY CRASH AND BURN, THE WHOLE DIGITAL MARKET GOES WITH THEM, AND THEN WE LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUYS. SO DON’T TWIST IT—WE’RE COMPETITORS, NOT SUPER-VILLAINS!”

 

[DanRad]

We need a @Digital Igloo Anger Translator™

 

[JiveTurkey]

That times a million.

The only time I rolled tubes was when I was using a THD Univalve and had a box full of different preamp/poweramp tubes to check out. it was interesting to hear the differences but 95% of it was just slightly different gain or volume levels. I was running it through the same 4x12 cab and playing with the same guitars and pedals.

Almost all of what I like about Fractal are the effects. Things like the Eventide Micropitch style dual detune, or big clean stereo chorus, or having a good amount of control over stereo delays, etc. Because most modelers will cover all the ground I need for amps and with a little EQ you can typically get where you need. As the effects unique to Fractal are ported into devices with much better UI, the need for the Fractal keeps dwindling for me.

That's where Stadium just needs the Micropitch added

Helix Dual Pitch back when I had the Stomp was actually really nice! It'll be one of the first things I drop in my preset \m/

 

[EOengineer]

Here's the thing. We don't expect—nor would we want—Helix Stadium to be a Fractal killer. We want Fractal to do well because they're a good company who designs and develops on their own terms. They're good for the digital market.

I thought I’d used a common enough vernacular (some device-killer) to avoid having to defend the non-existent notion that L6 is trying to put fractal out of business. Apparently not.

 

[Digital Igloo]

We need a @Digital Igloo Anger Translator™

ChatGPT: “OKAY, LISTEN UP! WE’RE NOT OUT HERE TRYING TO BURY FRACTAL IN A SHALLOW TECH GRAVE—EVEN IF THEY ARE OUR COMPETITION AND KEEP BREATHING DOWN OUR NECKS WITH EVERY NEW RELEASE! BUT FINE, YES, WE WANT THEM TO ‘DO WELL,’ BECAUSE IF THEY CRASH AND BURN, THE WHOLE DIGITAL MARKET GOES WITH THEM, AND THEN WE LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUYS. SO DON’T TWIST IT—WE’RE COMPETITORS, NOT SUPER-VILLAINS!”

Hahahaaa! What's funny is that post was the genuinely the calmest I've been in weeks.

 

[Digital Igloo]

I thought I’d used a common enough vernacular (some device-killer) to avoid having to defend the non-existent notion that L6 is trying to put fractal out of business. Apparently not.

Maybe it's because at least two other companies pitched their flagship multieffects as "Helix killers" to major dealers, not understanding that those dealers like us better than they like them. Because we're not dude-do-you-even-lift crypto bro douchebags who are the type to slither into competitors' threads (or entire forums) to slag their boxes "anonymously."

Okay, that one probably doesn't need an anger translator.

 

[Orvillain]

 

[StarF666]

Thomann just went from 2-5 days to 1-2 weeks.

 

[Mongillo19]

We need la szum here to remind us that waiting for the release of a product is the most exciting part of the process

 

[GTR37]

Maybe it's because at least two other companies pitched their flagship multieffects as "Helix killers" to major dealers, not understanding that those dealers like us better than they like them. Because we're not dude-do-you-even-lift crypto bro douchebags who are the type to slither into competitors' threads (or entire forums) to slag their boxes "anonymously."

Okay, that one probably doesn't need an anger translator.

 

[GTR37]

We need la szum here to remind us that waiting for the release of a product is the most exciting part of the process

In his absence we have Timbuck for that

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

We need la szum here to remind us that waiting for the release of a product is the most exciting part of the process

I miss that dude.