Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[Sascha Franck]

I’d love to know what the problems are that authentic L6 models (or hype) improve on.

Who said something about "problems"?

 

[Chocol8]

I’m saying it seems pointless

You don't understand how incredibly stupid it is to call something pointless when you don't even know what it does? Maybe just maybe it does something that people might like? Maybe that's the point?

 

[Lysander]

We've been talking about a Hype knob for many years. It was in the 1.0 Sound Design TRD when we broke Confluence and had to split everything up into like eight TRDs. That was before COVID I think.

Oh god, Confluence.

I'm so sorry man.

 

[mikah912]

Which doesn't matter one bit. It's the Line 6 sound design team's imagination of what an "idealized" version of an amp should be. Nothing more, nothing less. You can agree with them or not - and hence not use the hype knob even once. I can send you a piece of gaffa tape to hide the part of the screen where it shows up if you want.

I look at it exactly as how I look at the genuine L6 amp creations. It's *their* very own take at a particular kind of amp. Maybe it's a take you don't like (just as you don't like the Badonk). But I'm sure others will.

It's most of what I've been playing recently. The Voltage is a good Marshall-y starting point. The Oblivion and Badonk are all you need for high-gain rhythm and lead playing. Ventoux covers clean, chime, edge of breakup and outright bluesy wonderfully.

 

[JiveTurkey]

You don't understand how incredibly stupid it is to call something pointless when you don't even know what it does? Maybe just maybe it does something that people might like? Maybe that's the point?

Eat the Snickers! I promise it will help!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Maybe the hype knob can be used to have the volume control maintain tone as it is turned down without the inherent flaws of using a simple bright cap to do so?

If a hype knob is an optimal way for you to perform that particular mod, cool. A bright switch or just switching amps would suffice for me. As I said, I’m all for modding amps digitally, but a magic one knob control that does different things to different amps isn’t how I’d prefer it done.

You do studio stuff, do you not cut out stuff in a high gain guitar tone when you’re mixing? Or shift the bass in a bass tone? Or shelve some highs on a guitar buss?

I do, and it varies song to song even when everything else is the same. Unfortunately it can’t be simplified down to a single knob because there’s too many other factors at play.

Sure, until you have turned 12 knobs on 4 different compressor, eq, amp etc blocks multiple times over the course of a few days, turned your preset to shit, and then have to clean up the mess.

The wrong settings are still wrong regardless of whether they’re dialled in by the user or someone else. Usually the issue is overdoing things rather than underdoing them - if there is that level of processing then I’d usually expect it to be doing more harm than good. IMO a bigger problems users face with modelling is trying to fix a tone by adding more processing.

"Random"... as in if you turn the knob up from 0.0, a Plexi might get even more strident and harsh? That'd be awfully dumb of us.

IDK, I’ve definitely played plenty of Marshalls that I’d gladly open up more. Hell, a 60’s plexi is a lot less strident than a 70’s circuit. I don’t think it’s as black and white as authentic amp/ideal amp. IMO it’s way more of a grey areas with a lot of moving parts.

 

[synthpenguin]

Correct.

Does what the Hype knob does possibly vary from channel to channel, or just amp to amp? I ask because what might be considered, on average, an idealized version of, say, an AC30's Normal channel is probably very different from an idealized version of its Top Boost channel.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Only one way to settle this. TGF Stadium TourBox it is.

 

[Chocol8]

Eat the Snickers! I promise it will help!

You say that knowing what a Snickers is and what it is like to eat one.

 

[Orvillain]

In all seriousness, it is probably better to think of the hype knob as a 'FAS XXXXX' type deal - it turns the amp into a Line6 original. That's how I see it in theory.

 

[Chocol8]

it turns the amp into a Line6 original. That's how I see it in theory.

Or maybe it is a blend knob between Amp X and Line 6 Original Amp Y. How could that be "pointless" or a bad option to include?

 

[Sascha Franck]

it turns the amp into a Line6 original. That's how I see it in theory.

Every bit how I look at it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Or maybe it is a blend knob between Amp X and Line 6 Original Amp Y. How could that be "pointless" or a bad option to include?

It's not authentic. Hence not allowed. How. Dare. They?

 

[Chocol8]

It's not authentic. Hence not allowed. How. Dare. They?

If their capture tech is better than Tonex, that will cover the 115% more authentic than the real thing thing, and they will have earned the right to include a slightly less than 120% perfectly authentic model as an OPTION in their devices.

 

[Sascha Franck]

and they will have earned the right to include a slightly less than 120% perfectly authentic model as an OPTION in their devices.

Never! Ask Mr. Profiles. You just can't do that.

 

[GTR37]

I don’t really want to keep going in circles on this, but I’ve made this point a few times and it falls on deaf ears.

Improving the tone is way too context dependent and subjective to be achievable with a single knob (even if it’s adjusting multiple parameters). Who’s to say that more warts rather than less might be a better tone in some cases? If someone can’t get what they need with the available controls, is a single knob macro adjusting things behind the scenes going to be the magic bullet that beginners are looking for?

No one has made a valid case on how it can actually help, the only counter argument is “yeah but you haven’t heard it yet!”.

There are tons of innovations and improvements that I think are absolutely a step in the right direction. My take of hype is it’s closer to making people think there is a problem, so they can offer a solution.

If anyone wants to make a suggestion on a tangible way it’ll actually be useful or beneficial, I’m all ears. I’m not sure anyone who’s disagreed with me so far has actually responded to any of the points I’ve made on why I think it’s redundant.

FWIW I can absolutely think of other ways of expanding the capabilities of an amp in an intuitive way that isn’t as complex as adding 50 deep parameters. A single hype knob isn’t the route I’d take, and I don’t really mind. It’s just not to my taste and I don’t think it’s particularly helpful. YMMV, more power to you if you think it’s just the thing you’ve been missing.

I don’t know that you need it but Ben Adrian’s thought when he spoke about he said IIRC. When we got the Agoura JCM800 model
I was like wow this sounds like a JCM it has all the things I love about that amp BUT it also has all the things that annoy me , and I do mods to get rid off , maybe it was lower the bright cap or remove it but his thought was I want to do to this model what I would do to my own real amps and that where “hype” came from

DI has stated for the record if you are using an amp that you know and love in real world don’t touch this at all

It’s just another tool in the box that maybe allows you to tighten up you recto without having to use a boost thus saving you using a block

 

[Mooselake]

Go on then, tell me what the difference is between an authentic model and an idealised one. At least with an authentic model, it’s a quantifiable tangible thing. One persons ideal is another persons broken.

I might be wrong, but the way I think of it is the "idealized" brings the model closer to the realm of Line 6 original models in a sense.

The nice thing is the "hype knob" has a zero setting.

Line 6 thinks giving a user access to great sounds per his/her tastes with the least headache is a worthwhile endeavor. When it helps me in that pursuit, I'll use it. When it doesn't I'll set it to zero.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Or maybe it is a blend knob between Amp X and Line 6 Original Amp Y. How could that be "pointless" or a bad option to include?

Does every single amp inside Helix also need a morphable Line 6 Original version of it as well? I don't get the appeal, it's the original amp that I'm interested in. If thats what people want, then cool. Can't say I've seen people really say thats what they wanted on any platform. What UAD have done with modelling a few different versions of the same amp and offering them as distinct models resonates with me a lot more. Maybe I'm missing out by not blending between them, but somehow the thought has never occurred to me.

Every bit how I look at it.

Same here, although our opinions of L6 designed amps vary somewhat. The modelled amps more than do what I'm looking for.

Given how little I use the current Line 6 originals, I think it's still valid for me to not have any interest in a Line 6 modded Rectifier or Bogner. Totally get it if there is a clear gap to fill and a custom model makes sense. Or if a L6 member of staff just particularly has an itch to scratch then, cool knock yourself out. Still something I'd just gloss over while getting giddy over whatever new Agoura model comes along.

Never! Ask Mr. Profiles. You just can't do that.

And still totally missing the point, even though I've repeatedly said about how I think being able to mod digital models is one of its greatest strengths. In fact, it's the fact it appeals so much that a single hype knob isn't really the route I'd like. Makes no difference how many times I repeat myself once you've decided what you'd like to row about, does it?

Ben Adrian’s thought when he spoke about he said IIRC. When we got the Agoura JCM800 model
I was like wow this sounds like a JCM it has all the things I love about that amp BUT it also has all the things that annoy me , and I do mods to get rid off , maybe it was lower the bright cap or remove it but his thought was I want to do to this model what I would do to my own real amps and that where “hype” came from

I say this with total respect to Ben Adrian, because I genuinely think he's a genius and wouldn't change him one bit. But I'm not really interested in his amp designs or mods, he hasn't made a living doing that for customers or designing legendary amps like the ones Line 6 already model. Whether he thinks a 2203 is flawed or not is kind of irrelevant to the majority of people. If I tweaked a 2203 to what I thought was better, I'd still imagine the vast majority of people wouldn't care and would just opt for the one they know. Same is true for Cliff and his custom models, I don't really care about them. Its a nice novelty for him to offer but its nothing exciting to me.

I thought the Cartographer model was cool to have as a bit of a novelty and dive into Ben's own taste and background. Doing it for every amp model? I think I'm good with the stock sounds. Even if it was Friedman/Fortin/Zinky/Whoever, I don't think I'd need them to do a modded version of every single amp in Helix. There might be a handful where something makes sense, and even then I'd rather it wasn't implemented via a hype knob.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Oh god, Confluence. I'm so sorry man.

I don't have much to compare it to. Pre-Confluence, Line 6 was using TWiki markup language and at one point I was literally the only person in the building who knew how to write in TWiki. It was hell, but my previous gig emailed offline Word files, so...

Other than it not being designed for massive, single-page documentation (too many tables slow it down to a SLOG) and a few formatting quirks and bugs, I can't say too many bad things about it. We use Jira for stories and bugs as well; WAY better than Scrumworks and Bugzilla.

Don't get me started on Omnify. Other than a recent graphic assets refresh when they switched their name to Empower, I don't think the layout's been updated since the 90s.

it turns the amp into a Line6 original. That's how I see it in theory.

It's a lot more subtle than that, but sure. In beta, no one's really agreed on the best setting per amp, which to my mind isn't a bad thing. Person 1 loves Amp A with Hype at 7.0, Person 2 insists it's best at 3.0, Person 3 insists on leaving it off. Then for Amp B, Person 1 likes Hype at 1.5, Person 2 leaves it off, and Person 3 likes 5.0.

"Idealized" isn't the best verbiage, but there's too much nuance required to explain exactly what Hype tries to accomplish, so at a certain point you just don't push back too hard on the 25-word copy. Here's what appears when you tap the parameter:

"Depending on the amp and settings, increasing Hype may subtly or dramatically adjust various behind-the-scenes parameters to make the amp sound and feel smoother, fuller, punchier, tighter, and/or more forgiving, but at the expense of accuracy."​

 

[paisleywookiee]

Correct.

Then I definitely don't see a problem with it. If there's still the opportunity for "power users" to fiddle-fuck around with things (like the Helix now), then it's an additional option you can either use, or not.