Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

JiveTurkey said:
I think the thing that would concern me about a Hype knob is that I'd want the person who is defining the Hype adjustment parameters and what they are doing overall to have ears that align with mine. Which is a tall if not impossible order, imo. I do think it will be a selling feature for someone new to modeling that wants to give L6 a try.
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That’s essentially the deep advanced menu in the Fractal
If you want to change power tubes NFB bias etc etc
We still don’t know if Line6 will allow access to things like that that
I remember asking and DI said it doable but they might do it differently
 
mikah912 said:
Sure Jan GIF
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Replace that with I tried the
POD express and Fractal is better
 
Chocol8 said:
a simple control that dials out some of the warts of the real thing, and gets them closer to a tone they prefer quickly is a good thing.
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I don’t really want to keep going in circles on this, but I’ve made this point a few times and it falls on deaf ears.

Improving the tone is way too context dependent and subjective to be achievable with a single knob (even if it’s adjusting multiple parameters). Who’s to say that more warts rather than less might be a better tone in some cases? If someone can’t get what they need with the available controls, is a single knob macro adjusting things behind the scenes going to be the magic bullet that beginners are looking for?

No one has made a valid case on how it can actually help, the only counter argument is “yeah but you haven’t heard it yet!”.

There are tons of innovations and improvements that I think are absolutely a step in the right direction. My take of hype is it’s closer to making people think there is a problem, so they can offer a solution.

If anyone wants to make a suggestion on a tangible way it’ll actually be useful or beneficial, I’m all ears. I’m not sure anyone who’s disagreed with me so far has actually responded to any of the points I’ve made on why I think it’s redundant.

FWIW I can absolutely think of other ways of expanding the capabilities of an amp in an intuitive way that isn’t as complex as adding 50 deep parameters. A single hype knob isn’t the route I’d take, and I don’t really mind. It’s just not to my taste and I don’t think it’s particularly helpful. YMMV, more power to you if you think it’s just the thing you’ve been missing.
 
I assumed Hype was gonna be Soothe 2 for amps. Another thing that “makes stuff better” but can be waaaaaay over-used if people don’t know what they’re doing.
 
Here’s my argument for the hype knob.

Let’s say you’re not a modeling rocket scientist, and you think you want to mess with some subtle compression and eq to try to shape the sound of an amp model, but you don’t know exactly what you’re doing or how to get there. Then after you totally ruin your preset by adding the wrong things in the wrong places, you have to try to trace your steps back to get to where you started, unless you saved a duplicate preset to mess with.

Instead, with the hype knob, you can have it dialed in by the people who designed the amp model, quickly decide how much or how little of it you want, and if you want to undo it you just turn the knob back to zero.

And if you are a modeling rocket scientist, you just ignore the hype knob and leave it at zero.

Seems like it could help a lot of people, and for those that don’t want it, all they have to do is ignore it. There is plenty of stuff in helix I ignore.
 
IMG_2593.jpeg


“idealized” is totally unquantifiable AND something that deviates from authentic.

Chocol8 said:
Good grief.
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Go on then, tell me what the difference is between an authentic model and an idealised one. At least with an authentic model, it’s a quantifiable tangible thing. One persons ideal is another persons broken.


sashimi said:
and you think you want to mess with some subtle compression and eq to try to shape the sound of an amp model, but you don’t know exactly what you’re doing or how to get there
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This is exactly the problem that Hype is unable to fix. There’s no guarantee for any model that hype will have any effect on either of those. And suppose it did, how will it know if your tone is clean or gainy? or what style you are playing? or what part of the guitar your playing in? Will hype be able to tell a scooped tone from a midrangey one? In theory a guitar sound could need totally opposite treatment - and even then, the end result would be subjective.

and even if it did affect the EQ, it won’t know the cab or pickup, or context of what you’re trying to achieve. It would be as random as going through a few compressor or eq presets.

The reality is, if a user thinks they might need some eq or compression, they’d get closer to the sound in their head by reaching for those tools and figuring it out, rather than hitting and hoping with a hype knob.

It’s too minor of a thing for anyone to get worked up about. Of all the new additions in Stadium, it’s the only one I can’t get excited about but I really don’t care and I’m a bit surprised that people have high hopes for it given how much other cool shit is coming.
 
Considering how many Helix presets I've seen that are full of pre and post EQ blocks and compressors doing barely anything, and a lot of people on YouTube etc who insist these things (or all sorts of other odd choices) are necessary to get a decent sound, I think there is a disconnect for a lot of users, and a whole lot of unreliable advice even when they do try to go learn.

ime it's difficult for a lot of people who are new to modelling, or even who aren't, to grasp things like Master vs Drive and how that affects sound, or how a pre-amplifier mid boost / low cut or the Bass tone control can totally change the sound and feel, or how the EQ options on a more complex amp interact, and even when they might get those things intuitively with a real tube amp. Playback volume or method is a huge factor too, and that's not even getting into mics and IRs. It's all a huge block for a lot of people.

I think a simple hype knob makes a lot of sense for those people. Something that can quickly get them a "produced" sound in a pro-guided way is a better alternative than many of the (tbh weird and misguided) approaches that people end up being lead to take with their patches. It might lead to same-y-ness or an overly polished sound across a lot of presets, but that's not a new issue anyway (or not necessarily bad either, depending on what one wants to do), and the people who are looking for something else will get there anyway.

Hopefully, the combo of things like this and all the built-in help and tooltips will keep beginners or less technical users engaged in and guided through the device, and getting sounds they imagine quickly, without feeling the need to turn to too many external sources. With my experience with a lot of the advice given all over the internet for Helix, and recently Tonex too, I think that's not a bad thing, frankly.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
View attachment 50356

“idealized” is totally unquantifiable AND something that deviates from authentic.


Go on then, tell me what the difference is between an authentic model and an idealised one. At least with an authentic model, it’s a quantifiable tangible thing. One persons ideal is another persons broken.



This is exactly the problem that Hype is unable to fix. There’s no guarantee for any model that hype will have any effect on either of those. And suppose it did, how will it know if your tone is clean or gainy? or what style you are playing? or what part of the guitar your playing in? Will hype be able to tell a scooped tone from a midrangey one? In theory a guitar sound could need totally opposite treatment - and even then, the end result would be subjective.

and even if it did affect the EQ, it won’t know the cab or pickup, or context of what you’re trying to achieve. It would be as random as going through a few compressor or eq presets.

The reality is, if a user thinks they might need some eq or compression, they’d get closer to the sound in their head by reaching for those tools and figuring it out, rather than hitting and hoping with a hype knob.

It’s too minor of a thing for anyone to get worked up about. Of all the new additions in Stadium, it’s the only one I can’t get excited about but I really don’t care and I’m a bit surprised that people have high hopes for it given how much other cool shit is coming.
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But if you don’t like what it does, you just turn the knob back to zero :idk Seems like a very fast, easy, risk free way to see what the amp model designers think might be good ways to modify the tone, which is probably better than a clueless person flinging shit at the wall to see what sticks and then having to clean up the mess.

I am definitely not an expert but I am not totally clueless either, and I have screwed up a lot of my own presets by trying to add ‘hype’ on my own.
 
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