Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

I always wondered where or what the word wanker came from. Thanks to this thread, I now know. Maybe Line 6 can offer it as an optional mode during startup on the Stadium. When you fire it up it has a prompt: “Are you a complete wanker?” If you click yes, it removes the Hype feature.

If you click no, you get bonus original L6 amps.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
Unfortunately it can’t be simplified down to a single knob because there’s too many other factors at play.
Click to expand...

You don't seem to fully understand what the hype knob is about. But fortunately, Mr. Igloo just posted it above:

Digital Igloo said:
"Depending on the amp and settings, increasing Hype may subtly or dramatically adjust various behind-the-scenes parameters to make the amp sound and feel smoother, fuller, punchier, tighter, and/or more forgiving, but at the expense of accuracy."
Click to expand...

In my book, that hasn't got all too much to do with how a recorded amp signal needs to be adjusted to suit a mix but much more about how it feels in your hands. And as has also been stated, the hype knob possibly does something different for different amps. Again nothing mix-relevant but rather a thing about how the amp feels and reacts.
 
mikah912 said:
I just don't understand the "I'm not going to use this feature, so I'd rather it not be in the device AT ALL. Its very presence offends me!" mindset I've seen from you and a few others here. Any modern multi-FX modeler will offer models and capabilities that won't be used by any given user. Like, no one buys a Fractal and regularly uses 350+ models. Or uses all the factory presets. Or uses both performance pages all the time.

Use what you like, and disregard what you don't.
Click to expand...
This, so you don't like it? Don't use it, no one is forcing you to.
 
At least the anti hype knob criticism isn’t quite as offensive as TB3’s insistence that all non agoura amp models should just be dumped. But they both bother me for the same reason. Why tf can’t you just ignore it? If you don’t want any features on a modeler that you aren’t going to use, maybe an all in one modeler isn’t what you’re looking for. I probably use about 10% of the features on helix. You don’t see me going around bitching that everything else needs to be removed.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
Does every single amp inside Helix also need a morphable Line 6 Original version of it as well? I don't get the appeal, it's the original amp that I'm interested in. If thats what people want, then cool. Can't say I've seen people really say thats what they wanted on any platform.
Click to expand...
I think the Hype knob will be a great quick tool for shaping the sound of any amp model quickly into a direction that might appeal to the user. It might make a strident Marshall smoother, give a dull Normal channel of a Fender a bit more sparkle etc. Just do something that the original amp model does not do by tweaking controls.

MirrorProfiles said:
What UAD have done with modelling a few different versions of the same amp and offering them as distinct models resonates with me a lot more. Maybe I'm missing out by not blending between them, but somehow the thought has never occurred to me.
Click to expand...
For me, totally the opposite. The dumbest thing about the UA Ruby is how only one mode of the amp channels is adjustable with the treble/bass EQ controls. Only because the original amp was like that. But this is digital, why not just offer the option? "Turn these to zero for an authentic behavior on the Normal channel or give yourself some extra tweakability by turning them up." Purists can leave them down, others can make use of them. Instead to me the UA Ruby's Top Boost channel is the only one I actually like on that plugin. On the other plugins there's also often just one mode/channel/variant that I actually like. Same for their cab selection.

Amps have been modded for a long time. People have clipped off bright caps, swapped them for different values, altered tone stacks, added extra gain stages, used different tubes. All these make those amps "less authentic", but many have turned into signature features of brands like say Bogner, Mesa, Friedman etc.

I think the Hype knob will be effectively an adjustable amp mod from Line6. The Focus mode is like a stage tech that will tweak the amp by deciphering the interpretive dance of your finger on the touchscreen.

I've said before that I would gladly throw every brand name amp model found in modelers into the thrash can and use only original models if they sound good.

Give me the Line6 He Gets US model that sounds better than the best Fender amp models.
Give me the Line6 Super Shart model that sounds like the best Marshall "brown sound" ever made.
Give me the Line6 My Anaconda Don't Want None Unless You Got Badonk Hun model that sounds like the biggest, ballsiest, yet tight high gain thing. No matter how it's achieved.
 
laxu said:
I think the Hype knob will be a great quick tool for shaping the sound of any amp model quickly into a direction that might appeal to the user. It might make a strident Marshall smoother, give a dull Normal channel of a Fender a bit more sparkle etc. Just do something that the original amp model does not do by tweaking controls.
Click to expand...

If it's really like that (and given the currently available information, it seems as if it'll at least be similar), I can't see what's not to like. And if you never use it, you never use it. Doesn't get much easier.

laxu said:
I've said before that I would gladly throw every brand name amp model found in modelers into the thrash can and use only original models if they sound good.
Click to expand...

I would defenitely like that as well. But I'm afraid that any marketing department would rip your head off if you came up with that idea.
 
laxu said:
I think the Hype knob will be a great quick tool for shaping the sound of any amp model quickly into a direction that might appeal to the user. It might make a strident Marshall smoother, give a dull Normal channel of a Fender a bit more sparkle etc. Just do something that the original amp model does not do by tweaking controls.


For me, totally the opposite. The dumbest thing about the UA Ruby is how only one mode of the amp channels is adjustable with the treble/bass EQ controls. Only because the original amp was like that. But this is digital, why not just offer the option? "Turn these to zero for an authentic behavior on the Normal channel or give yourself some extra tweakability by turning them up." Purists can leave them down, others can make use of them. Instead to me the UA Ruby's Top Boost channel is the only one I actually like on that plugin. On the other plugins there's also often just one mode/channel/variant that I actually like. Same for their cab selection.

Amps have been modded for a long time. People have clipped off bright caps, swapped them for different values, altered tone stacks, added extra gain stages, used different tubes. All these make those amps "less authentic", but many have turned into signature features of brands like say Bogner, Mesa, Friedman etc.

I think the Hype knob will be effectively an adjustable amp mod from Line6. The Focus mode is like a stage tech that will tweak the amp by deciphering the interpretive dance of your finger on the touchscreen.

I've said before that I would gladly throw every brand name amp model found in modelers into the thrash can and use only original models if they sound good.

Give me the Line6 He Gets US model that sounds better than the best Fender amp models.
Give me the Line6 Super Shart model that sounds like the best Marshall "brown sound" ever made.
Give me the Line6 My Anaconda Don't Want None Unless You Got Badonk Hun model that sounds like the biggest, ballsiest, yet tight high gain thing. No matter how it's achieved.
Click to expand...
Yeah don’t get me started on UA’s retarded approach

“We modeled the amps warts and frustrating limitations and all so it’s exactly like using the real amp. Oh want to use an artist preset? It has features that you can’t access on the pedal, all you have to do is download the bluetooth app, allow location tracking on your phone, and sign an agreement not to say mean things about UA on web forums. Just like a real AC30!”
 
sashimi said:
But they both bother me for the same reason. Why tf can’t you just ignore it? If you don’t want any features on a modeler that you aren’t going to use, maybe an all in one modeler isn’t what you’re looking for. I probably use about 10% of the features on helix. You don’t see me going around bitching that everything else needs to be removed.
Click to expand...
I obviously can ignore it (how many times have I stated Im totally cool with others finding a use for it?), but why not discuss the pro's and con's with it? All I said was if I could hide it, I would, as the concept doesn't appeal to me. Baffles me how it's impossible for some people to have a discussion on things without getting culty or weirdly loyal to a particular brand. Hype is one way to skin that cat, which comes with its own pro's and con's.
laxu said:
Give me the Line6 He Gets US model that sounds better than the best Fender amp models.
Give me the Line6 Super Shart model that sounds like the best Marshall "brown sound" ever made.
Give me the Line6 My Anaconda Don't Want None Unless You Got Badonk Hun model that sounds like the biggest, ballsiest, yet tight high gain thing. No matter how it's achieved.
Click to expand...
Who gets to decide which one sounds best though? It just leads to situations like the 2204 with no bright cap, or broken RAT until we go full circle and end up with the stock circuits. Do we really want to go through all that shite again?

Are the devs who make amp models also the same people who happen to have the best taste with mods? I'd rather the circuits were defined by the amp companies, not an employee from another company with their own opinions. Give us the circuits we know and love and that the vast majority are familiar with. Optional mods are cool where they make sense, but even then I'd still rather they're based on stuff that is commonly done and tried and tested rather than a Frankenstein amp that is one persons idea of perfect.

Better than the best Fender amp models, best Super Shart, best high gain is all subjective and never going to satisfy as many people as just going after the stone cold classics. What's with the assumption that the stock sounds can always be improved somehow? I just don't see it. I also don't see (for instance) Fractal users saying things like "the IIC+ is so awesome and incredible authentic, but I just wish it had an extra "punch" parameter". The amps already sound great, thats why we want to use models of them. Line 6 have an INSANE collection of incredible amps, and they can afford to find the examples they like best.

laxu said:
I've said before that I would gladly throw every brand name amp model found in modelers into the thrash can and use only original models if they sound good.
Click to expand...
Why? Are amp models based on existing circuits somehow inferior or flawed? I way prefer the real amps being the test bed for fine tuning the circuit and meeting customer demand, and once an amp has gained a reputation, to then have a digital model of it. Audio DSP engineer's aren't really privy to that kind of customer feedback and refinement, seems a waste to discard it. There's so many amps that get modded to high heaven, and then get reverted back to stock. Almost like those amp designers sometimes know what they're doing....

UA's approach with the Dumble or Rectifier give all the real world switches and modes of the real amps, and allow you to make specific tweaks that make sense for that amp that are still appropriate that that circuit. They're not as deep as Fractal, but they're still controls that a typical user won't be thrown off by. Or conversely, with Lion, just having a few very well regarded models of similar amps is nice and scratches that itch of "its the same but different". The limitations of Ruby never bothered me, nor did I feel the need for a control that affects the punch/smoothness/dynamics because the amps they've chosen to model already sound good.

I'd happily take 3 or 4 different Plexi models, or a MOA Plexi's with switches and tweaks over one model with a hype knob. I'm genuinely surprised that having a preference like that over a hype knob is so controversial to some.

FWIW, there is so much stuff in audio like this:

bogrendigital.com

IRDX Core

IRDX Core — Speaker Dynamics Breathe life into your guitar amp sims and cabinet impulse responses. Simply add IRDX Core after your guitar amp or IR loader plugin and discover the natural movement, the 3D sensation, the slightly jagged edges, and the unpredictability you could previously only...
bogrendigital.com bogrendigital.com

That first make you believe there is a problem, and then they offer you the solution that promises similar kinds of improvements to the tone. How about another hype knob for the cab engine? what about for overdrive pedals and reverbs and delays? What about the compressors? I'm exaggerating of course, but the assumption that an accurate model is simply not good enough just doesn't add up to me. The more betterer knobs the......betterer.

I'll leave this there anyway, I'm clearly in the minority on this one and have made the points I wanted to make. Plus I can't be dealing with KingsXJJ getting carried away thinking he's funny.
 
A lot of what is popular in guitar gear is popular because of availability and use, not necessarily because it sounds the best or is the best or whatever. Personally I appreciate an approach that says “let’s make the guys who like the classics happy and then let’s also do stuff that is completely new that isn’t restricted to what already is”. Seems limiting to think of digital stuff like it’s always an approximation of a real thing. Screw that real thing, push the digital tools as far as you can and who cares if it makes the classics fans happy, they still have the classics. CAR ANALOGY TIME: if you don’t like hybrids don’t drive one.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
I'd happily take 3 or 4 different Plexi models, or a MOA Plexi's with switches and tweaks over one model with a hype knob. I'm genuinely surprised that having a preference like that over a hype knob is so controversial to some.
Click to expand...

It's not controversial. It's just that you could as well have both.

MirrorProfiles said:
That first make you believe there is a problem, and then they offer you the solution that promises similar kinds of improvements to the tone.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's even remotely comparable to what the Hype function seems to do.
 
Sascha Franck said:
It's not controversial. It's just that you could as well have both.
Click to expand...

THIS. We want the "mystery fun" of a Hype knob AND a MOA Plexi and JCM800 as well. The most popular mods are fairly well-documented. Add them as channels on the current Agoura models in some firmware down the line. Keep the Hype knob with that too!
 
MirrorProfiles said:
Does every single amp inside Helix also need a morphable Line 6 Original version of it as well? I don't get the appeal, it's the original amp that I'm interested in. If thats what people want, then cool. Can't say I've seen people really say thats what they wanted on any platform. What UAD have done with modelling a few different versions of the same amp and offering them as distinct models resonates with me a lot more. Maybe I'm missing out by not blending between them, but somehow the thought has never occurred to me.


Same here, although our opinions of L6 designed amps vary somewhat. The modelled amps more than do what I'm looking for.

Given how little I use the current Line 6 originals, I think it's still valid for me to not have any interest in a Line 6 modded Rectifier or Bogner. Totally get it if there is a clear gap to fill and a custom model makes sense. Or if a L6 member of staff just particularly has an itch to scratch then, cool knock yourself out. Still something I'd just gloss over while getting giddy over whatever new Agoura model comes along.


And still totally missing the point, even though I've repeatedly said about how I think being able to mod digital models is one of its greatest strengths. In fact, it's the fact it appeals so much that a single hype knob isn't really the route I'd like. Makes no difference how many times I repeat myself once you've decided what you'd like to row about, does it?



I say this with total respect to Ben Adrian, because I genuinely think he's a genius and wouldn't change him one bit. But I'm not really interested in his amp designs or mods, he hasn't made a living doing that for customers or designing legendary amps like the ones Line 6 already model. Whether he thinks a 2203 is flawed or not is kind of irrelevant to the majority of people. If I tweaked a 2203 to what I thought was better, I'd still imagine the vast majority of people wouldn't care and would just opt for the one they know. Same is true for Cliff and his custom models, I don't really care about them. Its a nice novelty for him to offer but its nothing exciting to me.

I thought the Cartographer model was cool to have as a bit of a novelty and dive into Ben's own taste and background. Doing it for every amp model? I think I'm good with the stock sounds. Even if it was Friedman/Fortin/Zinky/Whoever, I don't think I'd need them to do a modded version of every single amp in Helix. There might be a handful where something makes sense, and even then I'd rather it wasn't implemented via a hype knob.
Click to expand...
I totally get it you do not want to add mods unless they are your own choosing and that’s fair
But as long as it not slowing down the processor or affecting anything why can’t it be both

Why can’t Ben have his idealized sound or if someone loves their SLO plug-in and a little hype gets them to the same spot , I don’t think that necessarily a bad thing if it is not detrimental to the unit
You just never have to use it
Maybe in certain cases and certain situations you may even like what it does , but saying it is better not there is kinda like the Timbuck argument about removing the legacy fx , is it not
 
mikah912 said:
You win this week's No-Prize! (technically, the video is on Focus View, but there's a significant chunk of AC30 playing as they move the focus zones around):

Click to expand...


..... glad to see my idea about re-naming the Hype Knob was so universally loved and accepted ;)

On a serious note - seeing this work on an Amp Block is brilliant - and given you will be able to load / record your own dry clips, this is going to take tweaking any Amp or Effect Block into the realms of idiot-proof-do-it-in-no-time - adjusting at least 8 parameters interactively and in real time with your chosen guitar clip being used.

Whilst I obviously haven't tried it .... it is such a leap forward that once used, I would expect it will be "the way" to get you into the zone of the sounds you want.

Going to be very interesting to see how devotee's of other platforms try to shit-bag this feature once they see it in action - and then at some stage down the track when a similar feature is implemented [copied] into their platform, it will be the tears of Jesus captured in a bottle.

I know it cant be done, but it would be awesome, just to shit others, if L6 could lock this feature down with a Copyright :)
 
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