Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[ian_dissonance]

It’s being overthought a ton. Just like “mix-ready” IRs. Neither mean anything without context. If you buy all your stuff from Bogren Digital, those mix-ready IRs probably DO work. If the sound is harsh or ratty or “too real” hype knob probably helps you out. Even with real amps lots of people don’t really know what they sound like. I’ve seen guys who have been in bands for 20 years move their mic-stands to a certain spot because that’s where the amp sounds good to them. Not much different than the hype knob except everyone hears it instead of removing the eyeballs of the first row because someone positions themselves to not hear much in the 2-6Khz range, lol.

 

[Lysander]

You win this week's No-Prize! (technically, the video is on Focus View, but there's a significant chunk of AC30 playing as they move the focus zones around)

Very nice Vox tones on that clip!

I like how some of the focus view changes showcased here are rather subtle, and useful, instead of the classic everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach to presets. The differences going from "creamy" to "crispy" to "sparkle" are about the right amount i'd seek if doing changes by hand.

 

[KingsXJJ]

It’s being overthought a ton. Just like “mix-ready” IRs. Neither mean anything without context. If you buy all your stuff from Bogren Digital, those mix-ready IRs probably DO work. If the sound is harsh or ratty or “too real” hype knob probably helps you out. Even with real amps lots of people don’t really know what they sound like. I’ve seen guys who have been in bands for 20 years move their mic-stands to a certain spot because that’s where the amp sounds good to them. Not much different than the hype knob except everyone hears it instead of removing the eyeballs of the first row because someone positions themselves to not hear much in the 2-6Khz range, lol.

But if we move the mic from a different position from where the Amp Designer was sitting how can it be authentic?

 

[AlbertA]

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[JiveTurkey]

Very nice Vox tones on that clip!

I like how some of the focus view changes showcased here are rather subtle, and useful, instead of the classic everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach to presets. The differences going from "creamy" to "crispy" to "sparkle" are about the right amount i'd seek if doing changes by hand.

Except for the part where they didn't let us hear the Beefcake

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'd just prefer it to be done in a different way than a single knob.

So, did Line 6 take the other options away?

 

[Sascha Franck]

I don’t really want to keep going in circles on this, but I’ve made this point a few times and it falls on deaf ears.

No, it doesn't fall on deaf ears. People just look at things differently. Again: You can still tweak any amp in any way possible before. So what exactly is your problem?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

But if you don’t like what it does, you just turn the knob back to zero

Is that not the same as what you’d do already when adjusting a compressor or EQ? Stadium will even have presets within blocks so it’s even easier to audition things like that. Even if I had no clue what I was doing, if I was thinking the tone needs some kind of compression then that seems the obvious way, no?

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone ever complain about an amp model being too authentic and not ideal enough. If someone is able to tell me in what way a truly authentic model of a Bogner Ecstasy, or SLO100, or IIC+ or 2203 or Deluxe Reverb can be idealised then I’m all ears.

So, did Line 6 take the other options away?

Far from it. But I don’t see authentic models as mutually exclusive to ideal. Maybe some people do.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But I don’t see authentic models as mutually exclusive to ideal.

I don't get what this has to do with the discussion.

 

[Chocol8]

Go on then, tell me what the difference is between an authentic model and an idealised one. At least with an authentic model, it’s a quantifiable tangible thing. One persons ideal is another persons broken.

Move the goal posts much?

"No one has made a valid case on how it can actually help"

Uh, if it changes how the model sounds or responds and the user can control it, it should be pretty fucking obvious how it can help. THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT is for people who DON'T know the difference between an authentic amp and an "idealized" one to be able to blend between the two and decide WHAT THEY PREFER. Who cares if it is Line6's version of idealized and not mine, yours, or some guy named Bob's. Each user will either like it or not and each who uses it will decide how much they like on which models. Who cares what parameters it is changing for each amp under the hood. It's a tone shaping tool. How many guitarists know what a presence knob is doing on the inside of an amp, and can fully describe how it is changing negative feedback to the phase inverter for certain frequencies and how that in turn impacts tone? Very few compared to how many guitarists know how to twist one and find a setting they like.

You have no clue what it will do for each amp or how well it will be implemented yet, but here you are typing out pages worth of BS on how bad it is. That's beyond moronic since you obviously have no knowledge to judge it by. WHEN it comes out, you can try it on various models and then tell everyone why Line6 implemented it wrong and why they are changing the wrong things and whatever else you want to complain about, but until then you are just assuming they don't know what they are doing and that they will implement it wrong when in truth you don't have any idea what it will do or sound like on any model. Get a grip, you have gone off the rails here.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Move the goal posts much?

"No one has made a valid case on how it can actually help"

Uh, if it changes how the model sounds or responds and the user can control it, it should be pretty fucking obvious how it can help. THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT is for people who DON'T know the difference between an authentic amp and an "idealized" one to be able to blend between the two and decide WHAT THEY PREFER. Who cares if it is Line6's version of idealized and not mine, yours, or some guy named Bob's. Each user will either like it or not and each who uses it will decide how much they like on which models. Who cares what parameters it is changing for each amp under the hood. It's a tone shaping tool. How many guitarists know what a presence knob is doing on the inside of an amp, and can fully describe how it is changing negative feedback to the phase inverter for certain frequencies and how that in turn impacts tone? Very few compared to how many guitarists know how to twist one and find a setting they like.

You have no clue what it will do for each amp or how well it will be implemented yet, but here you are typing out pages worth of BS on how bad it is. That's beyond moronic since you obviously have no knowledge to judge it by. WHEN it comes out, you can try it on various models and then tell everyone why Line6 implemented it wrong and why they are changing the wrong things and whatever else you want to complain about, but until then you are just assuming they don't know what they are doing and that they will implement it wrong when in truth you don't have any idea what it will do or sound like on any model. Get a grip, you have gone off the rails here.

 

[ian_dissonance]

“Ideal” for most people means “pleasing”. “Ideal” for studio rats and digital amp collectors probable means “accurate”. For me any amp would be more “ideal” if all the junk (x-over distortion, noise floor, ghost notes, fizzies) just were never there. Probably why I gravitate to original amp models and why I’m having so much fun with the Boss stuff right now.

 

[mikah912]

Except for the part where they didn't let us hear the Beefcake

The absolute slickest thing about that was moving from Creamy to Leads, and how it seamlessly jumped channels and settings.

 

[Sascha Franck]

“idealized” is totally unquantifiable AND something that deviates from authentic.

Which doesn't matter one bit. It's the Line 6 sound design team's imagination of what an "idealized" version of an amp should be. Nothing more, nothing less. You can agree with them or not - and hence not use the hype knob even once. I can send you a piece of gaffa tape to hide the part of the screen where it shows up if you want.

I look at it exactly as how I look at the genuine L6 amp creations. It's *their* very own take at a particular kind of amp. Maybe it's a take you don't like (just as you don't like the Badonk). But I'm sure others will.

 

[Chocol8]

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone ever complain about an amp model being too authentic and not ideal enough. If someone is able to tell me in what way a truly authentic model of a Bogner Ecstasy, or SLO100, or IIC+ or 2203 or Deluxe Reverb can be idealised then I’m all ears.

You have definitely seen it, but you just didn't recognize it for what it was, just like many of the people complaining. People complain about "funny noises" in models without understanding things like blocking distortion and ghost notes and that the real amp does the exact same thing.

Deluxe Reverb? How about the bright cap behavior as you turn the volume way down? It can get pretty unpleasant especially with distortion upfront. How many amps have been modded and how many clones and models add a switch or option to address this? Maybe the hype knob can be used to have the volume control maintain tone as it is turned down without the inherent flaws of using a simple bright cap to do so?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I don't get what this has to do with the discussion.

The description from Line 6 describes Hype as above. The implication is authentic can be morphed into ideal. It’s precisely what the discussion is about.

Get a grip, you have gone off the rails here.

You’re extremely worked up here over the most minor gripe from me. If the models are authentic, i’ll be happy as a pig in shit. Why would I want something else? I don’t understand the appeal. What needs to be improved on?

Uh, if it changes how the model sounds or responds and the user can control it, it should be pretty fucking obvious how it can help

Genuinely I have no idea how it can help. what needs to be changed from an authentic model that can’t be done with existing controls? What does idealised even mean?

Solution looking for a problem.

You have no clue what it will do for each amp or how well it will be implemented yet, but here you are typing out pages worth of BS on how bad it is.

Im not saying how bad it is, I’m saying it seems pointless and not appealing to me. Yikes.

I look at it exactly as how I look at the genuine L6 amp creations. It's *their* very own take at a particular kind of amp. Maybe it's a take you don't like (just as you don't like the Badonk). But I'm sure others will.

I don’t really hear an issue with authentic models. I’d love to know what the problems are that authentic L6 models (or hype) improve on.

 

[ian_dissonance]

View attachment 50358

The description from Line 6 describes Hype as above. The implication is authentic can be morphed into ideal. It’s precisely what the discussion is about.


You’re extremely worked up here over the most minor gripe from me. If the models are authentic, i’ll be happy as a pig in shit. Why would I want something else? I don’t understand the appeal. What needs to be improved on?



Genuinely I have no idea how it can help. what needs to be changed from an authentic model that can’t be done with existing controls? What does idealised even mean?

Solution looking for a problem.

Im not saying how bad it is, I’m saying it seems pointless and not appealing to me. Yikes.


I don’t really hear an issue with authentic models. I’d love to know what the problems are that authentic L6 models (or hype) improve on.

You do studio stuff, do you not cut out stuff in a high gain guitar tone when you’re mixing? Or shift the bass in a bass tone? Or shelve some highs on a guitar buss?

 

[sashimi]

Is that not the same as what you’d do already when adjusting a compressor or EQ? Stadium will even have presets within blocks so it’s even easier to audition things like that. Even if I had no clue what I was doing, if I was thinking the tone needs some kind of compression then that seems the obvious way, no?

Sure, until you have turned 12 knobs on 4 different compressor, eq, amp etc blocks multiple times over the course of a few days, turned your preset to shit, and then have to clean up the mess.

Or I could just take 10 seconds to see if I like Ben Adrian’s tweaks, and if I don’t, turn the hype knob back to 0 and then start flinging shit at the wall again.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The description from Line 6 describes Hype as above. The implication is authentic can be morphed into ideal. It’s precisely what the discussion is about.

Ok.

Your complaints don't make much more sense, though.
"Boohoo, Line 6 allows themselves to add a non-authentic parameter on the representation of a real amp on their very own flagship modeler! That can't be! It's not allowed!"

 

[Digital Igloo]

So is it just me (?) that thinks using the word "Hype" for this control is a bit gimmicky or consumer-grade?

My friend, I think you may have briefly confused Line 6 with a company filled with nothing but stuffed shirt middle management corporate overlords.

To wit, my favorite Easter egg in Helix: If one presses FS1 (LEAVE COMMENT) on 8 TEMPLATES > YouTube Remote, it shuts down your browser.

Hype is different for every amp and essentially random as to whether it’ll be beneficial or not.

"Random"... as in if you turn the knob up from 0.0, a Plexi might get even more strident and harsh? That'd be awfully dumb of us.

Hype is set to 0.0 by default for all Agoura amps. IIRC, factory Focus zones don't move it from 0.0 either, but something might've snuck through.

The thing is, nobody's losing anything by the existance of the hype parameter (ok, it will cover some screen estate and an encoder - so let's hope it won't be on page 1) but some people (perhaps many) will feel more comfortable. So I just don't see any issue with it.

Hype is the last Amp parameter.

View attachment 50346

I love social media

Link please? It's been a while since I've gotten into a good scrap. Dude better be from Australia.

Did... did I plant the seeds for the Hype knob that everyone is fighting about now?

Edit: DI definitely nailed it in the last line though.

We've been talking about a Hype knob for many years. It was in the 1.0 Sound Design TRD when we broke Confluence and had to split everything up into like eight TRDs. That was before COVID I think.

I assume the new Stadiums do fit in the old bag? I read somewhere that they don't

Yes, Stadium XL or Stadium definitely fits with lots of room to spare; we'd recommend wrapping them in t-shirts to fill the gap.

Haven't tried to cram Helix Floor or LT into Stadium backpack yet tho'; the top is a water-resistant roll top so it might fit?

I was under the impression that what the hype knob does depends on which amp model you're using.

Correct.