Line 6 Helix Stadium Pre-Launch Discussion

[Sascha Franck]

I also think the Hype control is dumb (no matter what it’s called) and if the option is there to remove it, I probably will. “Improving” the tone in some way is so context dependent,

I was actually wondering at first, but I think it's fine. It's offering an easy way to alter the overall sound/feel of an amp, instead of fooling around with parameters quite some folks may not know what they're doing.
And after all, nobody's forcing you to use it at all.

 

[GTR37]

I mean, they explained the reasoning pretty clearly, and it really has almost nothing to do with poking fun at competitors.

People's perception of amps as they hear them on records after tons of EQ, boosts and post-processing is applied is often divorced from the reality of said amp played raw in the room. The same way people say that they love Mesa Mark tones from Metallica or Dream Theater, but struggle to dial them in. The same way they think that Plexis and JCM 800s have tons of gain because of the way that they hear them on records. Or how 5150s are a benchmark metal tone, but sound fizzy and suboptimal when you plug straight in.

That is why the hype knob exists. Hell, take modeling out of the equation. The entire "boutique amp" industry is largely-based on real-life Hype knobs (AKA mods) getting core Marshall/Fender/Vox/Mesa circuits closer to the sound, saturation and response buyers THINK they should have.

I think it cool as DI says it does different mods to each amp so it’s not the same behind the scene parameters that are being changed it amp specific , that alone must have taken a lot of work

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I mean, they explained the reasoning pretty clearly, and it really has almost nothing to do with poking fun at competitors.

People's perception of amps as they hear them on records after tons of EQ, boosts and post-processing is applied is often divorced from the reality of said amp played raw in the room. The same way people say that they love Mesa Mark tones from Metallica or Dream Theater, but struggle to dial them in. The same way they think that Plexis and JCM 800s have tons of gain because of the way that they hear them on records. Or how 5150s are a benchmark metal tone, but sound fizzy and suboptimal when you plug straight in.

That is why the hype knob exists. Hell, take modeling out of the equation. The entire "boutique amp" industry is largely-based on real-life Hype knobs (AKA mods) getting core Marshall/Fender/Vox/Mesa circuits closer to the sound, saturation and response buyers THINK they should have.

I didn’t imply anything about poking fun. I just don’t like the concept of “we fixed it for you” because in my experience, these at best make things weird and at worst sound bad.

The amount of post processing is not some kind of fixed cheat code - sometimes it may be next to nothing and other times it may be extreme. In any case, it’s never a consistent thing and would relate to far to many variables that would change for every user and every situation. I don’t mind offering sensible mods to amps but I just don’t like the concept of a hype knob to fix things that aren’t broken.

There is a video of Igor with a Badonk model comparing to Gojira , there is definitely some low cut some high cut going or what Igor mentions the tone controls have a limited sweep and seem to focus on a sweet spot like the range between 11oclock and 2 o’clock on a normal amp ,that avoids too much lows and too much highs , I am not saying it a bad thing at all
Many love their plug ins

Badonk isn’t a 5150 III though. You could do the same thing with 2 other different amps to make them sound more alike. I remember someone match-EQing a metal zone to a 5150 about 15 years ago and it sounded depressingly close.

I sold my 5150 III after comparing it side by side with Gojira, I didn’t hear anything extra being done to the tone at all.

I was actually wondering at first, but I think it's fine. It's offering an easy way to alter the overall sound/feel of an amp, instead of fooling around with parameters quite some folks may not know what they're doing.
And after all, nobody's forcing you to use it at all.

I’m all for changing the tone, but I’d rather do it with purpose and a clear direction. A single knob changing under the hood parameters leaves way too much to chance/random. It’s not how I personally want to dial things in, but I understand it may appeal to others. It’s aimed at people who maybe don’t know what they’re doing. That’s not the direction I personally like.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I think Hype is just perfect in this context.

 

[mikah912]

I didn’t imply anything about poking fun. I just don’t like the concept of “we fixed it for you” because in my experience, these at best make things weird and at worst sound bad.

The amount of post processing is not some kind of fixed cheat code - sometimes it may be next to nothing and other times it may be extreme. In any case, it’s never a consistent thing and would relate to far to many variables that would change for every user and every situation. I don’t mind offering sensible mods to amps but I just don’t like the concept of a hype knob to fix things that aren’t broken.


Badonk isn’t a 5150 III though. You could do the same thing with 2 other different amps to make them sound more alike. I remember someone match-EQing a metal zone to a 5150 about 15 years ago and it sounded depressingly close.

I sold my 5150 III after comparing it side by side with Gojira, I didn’t hear anything extra being done to the tone at all.

I’m all for changing the tone, but I’d rather do it with purpose and a clear direction. A single knob changing under the hood parameters leaves way too much to chance/random. It’s not how I personally want to dial things in, but I understand it may appeal to others. It’s aimed at people who maybe don’t know what they’re doing. That’s not the direction I personally like.

They never called the Hype knob a fix. They just know the perception of many amps doesn't match the reality when you plug in the first time and hit a chord.

There IS a clear purpose and direction because each amp has a different type of "hype" applied should you choose to use it.

Also.....maybe you missed it, but it's a knob. That means you can dial in as little or as much as you can stand. They clearly say it's not some all-encompassing panacea. You might like it subtly applied on the amp of your choice. Or you may want a lot. It you may want none.

How is giving users that choice bad?

 

[JiveTurkey]

I think the thing that would concern me about a Hype knob is that I'd want the person who is defining the Hype adjustment parameters and what they are doing overall to have ears that align with mine. Which is a tall if not impossible order, imo. I do think it will be a selling feature for someone new to modeling that wants to give L6 a try.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Also.....maybe you missed it, but it's a knob. That means you can dial in as little or as much as you can stand. They clearly say it's not some all-encompassing panacea. You might like it subtly applied on the amp of your choice. Or you may want a lot. It you may want none.

This! I might want it assignable to the sweep of an expression pedal, Wah pedals are so last century!

 

[Sascha Franck]

I’m all for changing the tone, but I’d rather do it with purpose and a clear direction.

Because you know what you're doing. Many people don't (perhaps even most).

A single knob changing under the hood parameters leaves way too much to chance/random.

Well, as said, nobody's forcing you to use it. And who knows - maybe you will even like it.

It’s aimed at people who maybe don’t know what they’re doing. That’s not the direction I personally like.

Well, you can always get an Axe FX. And besides, with the HX series, it seems you can have it both ways. I mean, they're not taking away anything in favour of the hype parameters.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw, before making any judgements about the hype parameter, I think it's the best idea to just wait and see what it'll work like. Maybe it's gorgeous. Maybe it's just very subtle. Maybe it's messing things up. Nobody (apart from some L6 guys and early testers) knows yet.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

They just know the perception of many amps doesn't match the reality when you plug in the first time and hit a chord.

This just doesn’t match my experience with real amps, models, captures or HW modellers. When I use a real amp it sounds like I would expect. When I use a modeller, it sounds like my amps do. I just don’t see where “HYPE” needs to come into it. All they have to do is sound like the real amp and I’m happy.

There IS a clear purpose and direction because each amp has a different type of "hype" applied should you choose to use it.

Whether the design type of “hype” aligns with the users need is random though. It might get closer to the user’s taste or it might get further away. If you adjust various parameters yourself there is a direction. Hype is different for every amp and essentially random as to whether it’ll be beneficial or not.

Also.....maybe you missed it, but it's a knob. That means you can dial in as little or as much as you can stand. They clearly say it's not some all-encompassing panacea. You might like it subtly applied on the amp of your choice. Or you may want a lot. It you may want none.

I know already I don’t want it, because I can’t see the benefit. Just as I don’t want unique amp sims designed by Line 6 or Fractal. Again, others can have their own preference but I prefer amps to be modelled accurately from real gear.

How is giving users that choice bad?

Because it makes people think that accurate amp models are in some way flawed or in need of improving. It has not been the case for me with any real amp or modeller before, and every platform seems to be doing just fine with accurate models. So it’s a solution looking for a problem IMO.

Well, you can always get an Axe FX. And besides, with the HX series, it seems you can have it both ways. I mean, they're not taking away anything in favour of the hype parameters.

Already have one. But I also like Line 6, and don’t really see any reason why not liking the concept of a Hype knob is any less valid than being excited about it.

I think the thing that would concern me about a Hype knob is that I'd want the person who is defining the Hype adjustment parameters and what they are doing overall to have ears that align with mine. Which is a tall if not impossible order, imo. I do think it will be a selling feature for someone new to modeling that wants to give L6 a try.

This is essentially the issue. And even if it was aligned for my tastes, there’s just so many different uses and possibilities that a single knob is never going to scratch the amount of itches just simple tweaks would. It’s the same bullshit as “mix ready IR’s” without knowing the context. It’s just better for the user to decide what needs to be done.

 

[Chocol8]

Just like Sheep icon is poking fun at themselves saying capturing is unfortunately now table stakes but everyone is doing it so we will as well,but they see Kemper as the OG and the rest are following his lead like sheep

It's a double meaning. The sheep is also a reference to Dolly the cloned sheep and amp/effects cloning/capturing.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But I also like Line 6, and don’t really see any reason why not liking the concept of a Hype knob is any less valid than being excited about it.

I don't say it's not valid. But you can just ignore it all throughout, case closed, no? They likely won't remove it in favour of 17 exposed parameters just because you don't see a reason for it.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I don't say it's not valid. But you can just ignore it all throughout, case closed, no? They likely won't remove it in favour of 17 exposed parameters just because you don't see a reason for it.

Maybe L6 could release a Pod version with three controls. Up and down to choose the amp and then one huge hype knob dead center under the display. Tweak and Jam. Headphone out only. Amp in the head tones for days.

$199 MSRP. They’d sell bunches.

 

[GuitarGorilla]

I don't see an issue with having the Hype knob. Some won't use it, some will like it. There's a similar "Amp" knob on my Tonex FR cab that's supposed to increase the "amp in the room" feel. 99% of the time I have no interest in it and prefer to use IRs and tweak my tone intensively. I bought a FRFR cab for a reason after all. But when I want to demo a random amp model on my QC for someone without messing with a bunch of settings and adding things to the signal chain it's nice to be able to turn the Amp knob to the right and sound decent.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The thing is, nobody's losing anything by the existance of the hype parameter (ok, it will cover some screen estate and an encoder - so let's hope it won't be on page 1) but some people (perhaps many) will feel more comfortable. So I just don't see any issue with it.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Trust the user to know what they’re doing when they actually know what they’re doing. For most guitarists there’s a Hype knob. Much like the “one knob” mixing plugins, it’s not there for people who know how to EQ, compress or saturate. It’s there for people who want a result with no effort. Just don’t use it if it’s not to your use.

More “made up” amp models are always welcome IMO, though. No need to keep repeating the warts of the past.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I don't say it's not valid. But you can just ignore it all throughout, case closed, no? They likely won't remove it in favour of 17 exposed parameters just because you don't see a reason for it.

Yeah exactly, and I will ignore it, just as I ignore Badonk etc. But there is a difference between features that I think are good, but I have no need for and therefore ignore, and features that I think are a gimmick. I don't mind eating my words, but a hype knob would not be my preference to achieve sounds beyond what the stock model is capable of.

If a modeller came along and offered "MIX READY IR's" as a new feature, I'd similarly just try to remove them from the device and go for the cab engine with moveable mics. Others might prefer a gimmick that changes the sound in an unpredictable way but it's not really what I'm looking for.

It's not an issue either, it's just simply not for me at all. It's totally in the opposite direction of what Im looking for. I'd rather it wasn't there, but if I have to ignore it, thats fine too.

 

[Mongillo19]

I love social media

 

[ian_dissonance]

I think Line 6 has done a really good job making products that engage both lazy and involved people. I still see a lot of “I just bought x modeler and it sounds like shit” and when you ask they never made it off the first bank of factory presets, have no idea what kind of sound they were looking for, made no attempt to dial anything in, and are also somehow monitoring it through the built-in speakers on their laptop.

 

[mikah912]

This just doesn’t match my experience with real amps, models, captures or HW modellers. When I use a real amp it sounds like I would expect. When I use a modeller, it sounds like my amps do. I just don’t see where “HYPE” needs to come into it. All they have to do is sound like the real amp and I’m happy.

But are people buying or using X amp because it is X amp or are they buying or using X amp because they love the tone where Y artist used X amp on whatever seminal record? If you don't know for sure, ask the Jose Arrendondo estate, Dave Friedman, Reinhold Bogner, Scott Splawn, Mark Cameron, David Bray, Lee Jackson, Mike Fortin, Dan Gower, Jens Kruse, Jason Tong.....

I'm pretty sure these gents ain't making a living making amps that sound "like the real" Plexi or JCM800.

Whether the design type of “hype” aligns with the users need is random though. It might get closer to the user’s taste or it might get further away. If you adjust various parameters yourself there is a direction. Hype is different for every amp and essentially random as to whether it’ll be beneficial or not.

This is a feature, not a bug. Line 6 is not trying to be Fractal with 50 exposed parameters on tabs and submenus. They conceived a simple, efficient way for anyone - experienced or not - to apply a single set of "mods" to an amp of their choice, and be able to control how much of it applies. You want more control and less randomness? Skip it and use the abundant EQ, dynamics, poweramp parameters (e.g. sag, bias) and cab options to shape your tone instead.

I know already I don’t want it, because I can’t see the benefit. Just as I don’t want unique amp sims designed by Line 6 or Fractal. Again, others can have their own preference but I prefer amps to be modelled accurately from real gear.

Why do you think it's binary? Line 6 can serve people with your preferences, and they can serve people who want them to get creative with original designs and functionality at the same time.

Because it makes people think that accurate amp models are in some way flawed or in need of improving. It has not been the case for me with any real amp or modeller before, and every platform seems to be doing just fine with accurate models. So it’s a solution looking for a problem IMO.

Do you feel the same about Fractal allowing you to swap tonestacks, tubes, and change voltages and other topographical components? Because that also implies that the amp - as is - isn't good enough.

I just don't understand the "I'm not going to use this feature, so I'd rather it not be in the device AT ALL. Its very presence offends me!" mindset I've seen from you and a few others here. Any modern multi-FX modeler will offer models and capabilities that won't be used by any given user. Like, no one buys a Fractal and regularly uses 350+ models. Or uses all the factory presets. Or uses both performance pages all the time.

Use what you like, and disregard what you don't.