Let's talk mics!

[laxu]

I've been thinking of picking up a mic for the following purposes:

• Micing my real guitar cabs.
• Trying my hand at room micing. I know my music room ain't exactly a beautiful studio space, but it could still offer something interesting.
• Since I'm not micing my cabs all the time, I'd like it to do double duty as a vocal mic for just work meetings and stuff. I'm currently using wireless headphones for that and they kinda suck due to latency, closed back etc.

Yeah I know, "Just buy a Shure SM57 you heathen!" I will probably buy a SM57 used along the line but consider it a "blend it with something else" mic, which then gets more complicated.

If you had to pick just one all purpose microphone right now, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, what would you get? I've been eyeing a used Audio Technica 4050 but what else should I consider?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

AT4050 is a solid mic and hard to beat for the price. It’ll work on basically everything, it’s very versatile.

I personally find it extremely flat on vocals and prefer something a little more suited for that specific task (JZ V67 just wins out in every mic shootout I do and they’re quite affordable for the quality).

For blending with a 57 and room micing (especially in an untreated room with lots of resonances) I’d probably recommend a ribbon mic which have a gentler top end.

Another option for guitar+vocals could be sm7b but you may want a preamp with a decent amount of gain (or cloudlifter) too. I have a sort of love/hate relationship with sm7b on vocals, for some vocalists it’s great and for others it’s very hard to balance out the inherent tone it has. Not really much of a “room mic” but that novelty may where off when you are familiar with the sound of a typical untreated room. Still handy to have in the mic locker though.

EDIT: just seen it’s for meetings etc rather than singing. AT4050 or sm7b will do just fine

 

[laxu]

AT4050 is a solid mic and hard to beat for the price. It’ll work on basically everything, it’s very versatile.

I personally find it extremely flat on vocals and prefer something a little more suited for that specific task (JZ V67 just wins out in every mic shootout I do and they’re quite affordable for the quality).

For blending with a 57 and room micing (especially in an untreated room with lots of resonances) I’d probably recommend a ribbon mic which have a gentler top end.

Another option for guitar+vocals could be sm7b but you may want a preamp with a decent amount of gain (or cloudlifter) too. I have a sort of love/hate relationship with sm7b on vocals, for some vocalists it’s great and for others it’s very hard to balance out the inherent tone it has. Not really much of a “room mic” but that novelty may where off when you are familiar with the sound of a typical untreated room. Still handy to have in the mic locker though.

EDIT: just seen it’s for meetings etc rather than singing. AT4050 or sm7b will do just fine

Thanks for the insight!

I know for meetings pretty much anything would do, it's just an extra usecase I'd like to use when the mic is not used for micing a cab.

Who knows, maybe I'll try my hand at singing. I've been known to hold half-a tune in karaoke!

Pete Thorn had a good video on the 4050 and the mic shootout video at Sweetwater was also interesting.



Out of the mics in this video the 4050 and Soyuz 1973 were definitely my favorites for just one mic. Soyuz is a bit expensive even though I like it a bit better here. The Fractal Dyna-Cab Condenser mic is apparently the Soyuz 023 Bomblet which uses the same capsule as the 1973 I believe.

For virtual mics my favorites have been SM57+M160 or SM7B+160, but the Beyerdynamic M160 is also expensive and hard to find used here in Finland, while the SM7B is similar price range used as the AT 4050.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Soyuz mics are lovely but kind of a luxury IMO. JZ’s condensers have kind of annoying marketing but they’re so hard to beat for the quality of the mics vs what they cost. Beesneez are also quite a cool brand, they make some handmade mics totally in house as well as some other ones in chinese bodies that sound great but are more affordable. Their K47 capsule is VERY highly regarded among Neumann enthusiasts. Another condenser that’s tried and tested is a C414 - it’s kind of like a 4050 where it’ll work on everything but it’s quite flat/plain sounding. Austrian Audio OC818 is a more modern take on that. U87 is an expensive version of that, massively overrated IMO.

Beyer m160 and m260 are cool mics and hold their value well. Royer and Coles are pricey but hold their value even better. Cheap ribbon mics work great too, a lot of the time I don’t think they sound inferior to the fancy stuff so much as just having their own voicing.

SE X1R is a fantastic ribbon mic that is useful on tons of sources and costs next to nothing. Their other ribbon mics are also cool and quite affordable.

If you want to be able to record really pristine vocals, I think forking out for a decent condenser is well worth it. If it’s mostly for guitars and some other stuff, I don’t think I’d be too precious.

You could also consider some nicer dynamic mics like Beyer m88 or Sennheiser MD441 which sound excellent on guitars and are underrated on vocals.

I think as much as considering what you want to spend, it can be worth thinking about what you can sell it for down the line.

 

[James Freeman]

SM7B

 

[laxu]

Speaking of the SM7B, I have read some reports of "old ones are different (and of course better) than new ones". Any truth to that?

For me the primary usecase will be just micing a guitar cab though, that's where I want things to sound good. Then it's a question of whether a mic with character is better than a mic that is relatively flat like the 4050 or C414 - "sound shaper" vs "source with warts and all".

All I have atm is a pair of Sonarworks XREF20 condenser mics (meant for measuring room response) that are almost damn near flat. I've tried using them to mic a cab and they work but not that great. For voice they require too much preamp gain so you end up in hiss city and it's a bit uncomfortable speaking into a mic that looks like the barrel of a gun!

 

[Snags]

I'm concerned that this idea of double duty means you're overlooking the opportunity for another rabbit hole of GAS ...

FWIW I use a Sennheiser E906 on cabs and for interest used to pair it with a dead cheap vocal mic (Samson Q7 or some Berhinger SM58 knock-off). Eventually spotted for an SM57 so tend to use them paired and blended now, when I get time to do any recording.

For meetings I'm a lazy shit so use the webcam mic . I did have a phase of using a condensor (MXL770 because I'm too poor to get anything better) but it was a PITA: had to wear headphones to avoid getting echo/feedback, and in a lot of situations that just looked silly.

 

[woody]

I have a pair of Roswell mini k47 that I really like.
It is amazing on steelstring acoustic, great on guitar cabs, works nicely as room mic and pairs well with deep voices.
For my slightly strident tenor the k47 capsule is a bit harsh, so the mini k87 with it's more neutral capsule might be a more versatile choice.

They are pretty affordable, too, so for a little more than the AT5050 you can get a mixed pair of the mini k mics at Roswell:
https://roswellproaudio.com/products/mini-k-mixed-pair
Between a mini k47 an a mini k87 you can cover a lot of ground.

(When I bought my k47 the 87s weren't out, yet)

 

[Orvillain]

Yeah I know, "Just buy a Shure SM57 you heathen!"

It isn't even that. It is that if you haven't been using an SM57 for a good few years in a variety of ways, then anything more expensive is just a waste of money for the vast majority of people - IMHO.

My mic selection is pretty average tbh. I use the mics studios provide whenever I need to go into one for work or for the band. But the ones I own and regularly use are:

SM57 - guitars and snare
Rode NT2000a - vocals
Audix D6 - kick drum and bass cabs

I've got a bunch of others, but tbh I never use them, they were cheap options about 10 years ago, and I could just as well throw them on eBay and never think about them again.

 

[laxu]

I'm concerned that this idea of double duty means you're overlooking the opportunity for another rabbit hole of GAS ...

On the contrary I'm trying to buy "something pretty good once" so I don't end up in rabbit holes where in the end I have a dozen mics.

FWIW I use a Sennheiser E906 on cabs and for interest used to pair it with a dead cheap vocal mic (Samson Q7 or some Berhinger SM58 knock-off). Eventually spotted for an SM57 so tend to use them paired and blended now, when I get time to do any recording.

I used the E906 for years. I wasn't that experienced in micing cabs so it was most of the time "just run the cable under the amp head and dangle the mic around this area of the cab". In hindsight should not have sold it as it was one of the older versions that are supposedly better.

For meetings I'm a lazy shit so use the webcam mic . I did have a phase of using a condensor (MXL770 because I'm too poor to get anything better) but it was a PITA: had to wear headphones to avoid getting echo/feedback, and in a lot of situations that just looked silly.

I'm wearing headphones in the first place and so are most unless they use their laptop's webcam and mic so it's not a problem. My laptop is generally closed on the desk and used more like a desktop system with external monitors and peripherals.

I originally got the Jabra Elite 85H wireless headphones I've been using because people were complaining they couldn't hear me on the Intel Macbook Pro 2019 built in mic because the damn machine was always running its fans with a 4K external monitor connected. My current M2 Max Macbook Pro is dead silent but when it's closed the mic doesn't work that well.

Meanwhile the Jabras are noisy on my end (it's a "hear-through" feature so you can hear yourself talking with closed headphones) when the mic is on which is annoying. Plus it adds enough latency that sometimes I find myself talking over others which I'd like to avoid. So I thought the idea of buying a mic for multiple duties (since I'm not micing cabs all day long) would make sense - or at least another justification for buying gear!

 

[Snags]

Yeah, should have said my webcam is external, as my laptop's also docked, lid down. But if you're using headphones anyway then a decent mic does make sense. I also work in a room with all my friends (i.e. no-one) so don't have to use headphones.

 

[la szum]

Isn't a stout preamp or the Cloudbuster necessary when using an SM7B?

I see Shure just released a version with a preamp built in to address that. The SM7dB.

Shure SM7dB Active Dynamic Microphone

Dynamic Vocal Microphone with Active Preamp with Up to 28dB of Adjustable Gain

www.sweetwater.com

 

[woody]

Isn't a stout preamp or the Cloudbuster necessary when using an SM7B?

I see Shure just released a version with a preamp built in to address that. The SM7dB.

Shure SM7dB Active Dynamic Microphone

Dynamic Vocal Microphone with Active Preamp with Up to 28dB of Adjustable Gain

www.sweetwater.com

Most interfaces and preamps have enough clean gain these days that pushing the signal +20db in post should result in a lower noise floor than adding a 20db gain stage in front of the mic pre.
Additionally the cloud lifter acts like a buffer, so the SM7db is kinda the EMG of the dynamic mic world.
Which might be your cup of tea, or not.

That set aside, the SM7 is famously marketed for all the room sound it "rejects" (sic!), so it's not an obvious choice for room micing.

 

[FuzzyAce]

EV RE320 (or RE20)
SM57
SM58
Rode NT5
SM7B
Sennheiser e835
Sennheiser e609

 

[la szum]

I'd probably snag 2 or 3 mics that together = $699 versus grabbing just the one.

 

[bgstudio]

I just dropped a video looking at mics in the $100 range... acoustic and electric sound demos. Surprisingly, the cheap AT 2020 condenser mic sounded really good to me. It also works really well for meetings etc. The SM-57 is a staple microphone, but if someone was going to start home recording the AT mics seems really nice!

 

[Moondog Wily]

I use the following:

Rode NTR (Ribbon mic, use for vocals but also is a great room mic, acoustic guitar and lot's of other stuff - pricey ~$800)
SM7B (use for vocal, cajon - have cloudlifter but keep in mind cloudlifter does require 48v phantom power)
SM58 (everything)
SM57 (cajon, vox, other)
SM81L x 2 (acoustic guitar in 90 deg array)
PG58 (for when I need a second 58)
SM57 Beta (cajon, vox, other)
AKG Lyra Ultra (USB mic that I use for meetings, zoom calls, etc - multi pattern array but never played with it for any recording or music stuff)

All that said, I have never miced a guitar cab, so I can't say what I would use there, probably a SM57 just based on historical record in the industry.

My favorite for vocals by far is the Rode NTR! SM7B is second and SM58 is third based on what I have (and I have never tried/tested anything beyond current mic locker).

Best of luck finding a match for your needs!

 

[2112]

The Cascade Fat Head and OPR The Grill (R121 clone) are great budget ribbon options. SM7b is a great all rounder and I prefer it to an SM57 on guitar cabs these days.

 

[Moondog Wily]

The Cascade Fat Head and OPR The Grill (R121 clone) are great budget ribbon options. SM7b is a great all rounder and I prefer it to an SM57 on guitar cabs these days.

I was reeally surprised when I started using the SM7B on my cajon that I hit with a drum pedal while playing guitar. It sounded much better than the SM57 or 57 Beta that I am so used to using on stuff like that! I think that mic is a bit overpriced, but almost have to have one as they are just that good and have a great resume!!

 

[laxu]

I just dropped a video looking at mics in the $100 range... acoustic and electric sound demos. Surprisingly, the cheap AT 2020 condenser mic sounded really good to me. It also works really well for meetings etc. The SM-57 is a staple microphone, but if someone was going to start home recording the AT mics seems really nice!

It's surprisingly hard to find mic shootouts that have examples of micing a cab and playing overdriven guitar through them because to me that best highlights their differences. So many of these tests are talking, singing, or at most acoustic guitar. So thanks for doing a comprehensive one.

To me on distorted guitar the SM58 actually sounded best on its own because it was a bit less fizzy than the SM57, but I bet SM57+AT2020 would pair together well.