Let's talk mics!

[laxu]

I'm looking at my local used market and someone is selling SM7B + Thomann FET preamp for 320€ which is a normal "about 70% of new price" deal. Another person is selling a AT 4050 for 400€ which is a good deal for a 700€ mic. Plus various people selling SM57s for 75-80€ but you can buy those anytime for that money.

A bit conflicted on what route to go here as the SM7B is a staple, but Pete Thorn's video convinced me the 4050 can sound good too. On the flipside I already have an "almost flat" small condenser mic in the Sonarworks XREF20 and putting it on my cab, I got half-decent results out of it.

I can of course use IRs for cab sims all day long and have plenty of options for that, but I'd also love to be able to make some decent IRs out of my real cabs, or mic them as an alternative. My Bluetone 4x10 with 10" GBs and BluGuitar Nanocab are both unique enough.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

sm7b is sort of like a variation of the sm57, same capsule, similar overall vibe with just a smoother response and a bit better for vocals.

AT4050 is totally different, I doubt it’ll sound anything like the XREF20 for your uses because the XREF20 is a measurement mic with omni pickup pattern.

Bad answer but do you have room to buy both? can always sell one on if you don’t need it (both mics go for pretty consistent prices on the used market/always in demand), and you can always knock sound IR’s out first. sm7b isn’t really useful as a room mic but it would be good for calls etc. AT4050 gets you something different to a dynamic mic on a cab, and it’ll be handy as a room mic

 

[laxu]

sm7b is sort of like a variation of the sm57, same capsule, similar overall vibe with just a smoother response and a bit better for vocals.

AT4050 is totally different, I doubt it’ll sound anything like the XREF20 for your uses because the XREF20 is a measurement mic with omni pickup pattern.

Bad answer but do you have room to buy both? can always sell one on if you don’t need it (both mics go for pretty consistent prices on the used market/always in demand), and you can always knock sound IR’s out first. sm7b isn’t really useful as a room mic but it would be good for calls etc. AT4050 gets you something different to a dynamic mic on a cab, and it’ll be handy as a room mic

Yeah I know the XREF is more of a measurement mic. I got it bundled with Sonarworks Reference 4 originally, actually got two of them because the store made a mistake by sending the wrong license and then just told me to keep the other mic. So I've been trying to get some use out of them.

I'd rather not buy both at this time just to try them, both are expensive enough that they might not sell that quickly. Your reasoning for the AT4050 does make sense so I'll definitely consider that.

 

[Rewolf]

I will throw Aston Stealth in the mix as a relatively unknown mic that can do multiple things - it is a large-diameter dynamic with built-in booster and has 4 modes: two vocal, and two guitar (one is voiced like a ribbon). 8 Modes if you consider switching the active boost on and off.

It got excellent reviews but is a little-known UK manufacturer that, perhaps unfortunately was brought into the Music Tribe Group. It might be worth looking at if it is available in your local market.

Aston Stealth

Aston's capacitor mics are fast becoming popular in the studio, and with its four voicing options and built-in preamp, their first ever dynamic model looks set to follow suit!

www.soundonsound.com

I managed to grab an eBay bargain recently for £75.

 

[Deadpan]

Definitely recommend the SM7b for you.

 

[laxu]

Well, someone put up for sale an Audio Technica 2020 for 50 euros + postage. Hard to beat that price so I bought it. I'll give it a try and see how it works out. Then maybe consider pairing it with something else.

 

[joezlo]

I've been thinking of picking up a mic for the following purposes:

• Micing my real guitar cabs.
• Trying my hand at room micing. I know my music room ain't exactly a beautiful studio space, but it could still offer something interesting.
• Since I'm not micing my cabs all the time, I'd like it to do double duty as a vocal mic for just work meetings and stuff. I'm currently using wireless headphones for that and they kinda suck due to latency, closed back etc.

Yeah I know, "Just buy a Shure SM57 you heathen!" I will probably buy a SM57 used along the line but consider it a "blend it with something else" mic, which then gets more complicated.

If you had to pick just one all purpose microphone right now, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, what would you get? I've been eyeing a used Audio Technica 4050 but what else should I consider?

I used a 57 & Beta57 for mic'ing a 4x12 cab with a 100watt 5150ii head. Mics were slightly off center of cone and 6 inches away. Trim on boards were taken to the clip point and then brought back slightly to the point of almost clipping. Always had a great sound & great blend. Beta57 was great for Voice too.

 

[laxu]

When researching mics, I watched a whole bunch of various mic comparisons and it definitely gets into the weeds where you have to go back and forth between clips so your brain doesn't interpret "that last one was brighter, so this next one sounds really dark" or vice versa just because the change is more drastic than between "sound of mic X -> similar to sound of mic X but a little bit darker".

Plus all this doesn't account for mic placement which may not be ideal for each mic as you have to minimize variables in a mic shootout.

 

[bgstudio]

Well, someone put up for sale an Audio Technica 2020 for 50 euros + postage. Hard to beat that price so I bought it. I'll give it a try and see how it works out. Then maybe consider pairing it with something else.

The AT 2020 is a no frills straight forward mic and very well built. I do plan to try and do some mixes with the SM-57 soon, but for an affordable condenser that you can "point and shoot", it is well worth the price!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

AT2020 is an OK mic, but I think the jump to AT4047 and 4050 etc is quite dramatic. IMO it’s worth the money to spend a little more, but the 2020 will at least give you an idea of what to expect.

 

[Achilles]

Shure SM57 and a Sennheiser E609 silver combined and mixed to taste.
The End.

 

[joezlo]

When researching mics, I watched a whole bunch of various mic comparisons and it definitely gets into the weeds where you have to go back and forth between clips so your brain doesn't interpret "that last one was brighter, so this next one sounds really dark" or vice versa just because the change is more drastic than between "sound of mic X -> similar to sound of mic X but a little bit darker".

Plus all this doesn't account for mic placement which may not be ideal for each mic as you have to minimize variables in a mic shootout.

Then don't use your ears; look for frequency peak charts.

 

[laxu]

AT2020 is an OK mic, but I think the jump to AT4047 and 4050 etc is quite dramatic. IMO it’s worth the money to spend a little more, but the 2020 will at least give you an idea of what to expect.

Yeah that's the idea, at this price I can easily sell it if I want something better, but is a cheap way to try things out. Based on various sources the AT2020 seems to be less flat and clear than the 4047 or 4050.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

I'm late to this thread, but I have a couple condensers (one of them being a very nice Neumann TLM103) and an SM7B.

I will say this: if you don't have a treated room for recording, then most of the benefit you get from a really nice condenser goes right out the window, especially for quieter sources like vocals, but also things like acoustic guitar. For loud sources, the reflections won't be as prominent, but for that kind of stuff an SM7B still might serve you better because it can handle a crap-ton of volume.

The SM7B, because of its lower sensitivity, allows you to get fairly close to it, which is partly why it seems to reject background noise well. It's also more directional than your typical cardioid condenser, so that helps its rejection as well. You can gain it up and get it nearly as sensitive as a condenser if you want, but it is noisy if you do that, so I don't recommend it.

IMO, the SM7B is the ideal all-around mic for just about anything in untreated spaces. It still gets lots of use by pros for recording in the studio too. I use a FETHead with mine, but I get similar results just by gaining it up about 30dB with my Helix's mic preamp, and then bringing the level up more in the digital domain afterward.

You can EQ it to sound very similar to other mics, and it has a buttery smooth flat sound without harsh resonance peaks like a lot of cheaper condensers have. If you use it for vocals and take the foam windscreen off, it brings in noticeably more presence, too.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

I'm writing a novel here, but a couple more positives of the SM7B: it's built like a tank. Very solid. And the capsule is fairly well-isolated from the body, so it's even possible to handhold it if you want, without getting a bunch of noise into the recording. With a condenser, forget it, you need a stand and a shock mount.

 

[woody]

Yeah that's the idea, at this price I can easily sell it if I want something better, but is a cheap way to try things out. Based on various sources the AT2020 seems to be less flat and clear than the 4047 or 4050.

Buying used stuff for cheap to build experience and selling it without a big loss when you can make more informed decisions is always a good idea.

 

[James Freeman]

but Pete Thorn's video convinced me

A quick reminder that Pete Thorn is an advertiser and a salesman, it's his job to convince you.

 

[laxu]

AT2020 arrived yesterday. Initial impressions: at this price (or even its new price), really can't complain about anything.

I just need to buy a suitable mic stand for it as I don't have any at home atm. I will probably venture to local music stores tomorrow to see their selection. Ideally I'd find something compact and dual-purpose that can sit on my desk for everyday use or can be put on the floor to mic a cab.

I tried it handheld for a meeting this morning and it worked alright, so good enough for "just make more use of it" purposes. I do have to raise the gain on my Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen mic preamp pretty high, but not to noisy levels.

I looped the mic cable through the handle of my BluGuitar Nanocab just to dangle the AT2020 on a guitar cab and that worked out fine too, though accurate mic placement is hard to do. The sound I got was pleasing and matched what I heard in the room pretty well.

I'll try to record a clip when I get a proper stand.

 

[Bruce]

Soyuz mics are lovely but kind of a luxury IMO. JZ’s condensers have kind of annoying marketing but they’re so hard to beat for the quality of the mics vs what they cost. Beesneez are also quite a cool brand, they make some handmade mics totally in house as well as some other ones in chinese bodies that sound great but are more affordable. Their K47 capsule is VERY highly regarded among Neumann enthusiasts. Another condenser that’s tried and tested is a C414 - it’s kind of like a 4050 where it’ll work on everything but it’s quite flat/plain sounding. Austrian Audio OC818 is a more modern take on that. U87 is an expensive version of that, massively overrated IMO.

Beyer m160 and m260 are cool mics and hold their value well. Royer and Coles are pricey but hold their value even better. Cheap ribbon mics work great too, a lot of the time I don’t think they sound inferior to the fancy stuff so much as just having their own voicing.

SE X1R is a fantastic ribbon mic that is useful on tons of sources and costs next to nothing. Their other ribbon mics are also cool and quite affordable.

If you want to be able to record really pristine vocals, I think forking out for a decent condenser is well worth it. If it’s mostly for guitars and some other stuff, I don’t think I’d be too precious.

You could also consider some nicer dynamic mics like Beyer m88 or Sennheiser MD441 which sound excellent on guitars and are underrated on vocals.

I think as much as considering what you want to spend, it can be worth thinking about what you can sell it for down the line.

Don’t sleep on the Beyer M160 for a vocal mic, too. That is a fantastic little mic for sure. Looks like a toy but packs a great punch. also the best guitar cab dynamic I own is a 201TG. It’s like everything I dial out of a 57 to get it sounding good and that is the 201 already.

 

[Bruce]

It's surprisingly hard to find mic shootouts that have examples of micing a cab and playing overdriven guitar through them because to me that best highlights their differences. So many of these tests are talking, singing, or at most acoustic guitar. So thanks for doing a comprehensive one.

To me on distorted guitar the SM58 actually sounded best on its own because it was a bit less fizzy than the SM57, but I bet SM57+AT2020 would pair together well.

It is very hard to hear much differences between mics when it is only vocals.



Check out the Shure run of the mill SM58 vs their top of the line KSM 11 capsule. The capsule alone sells for 900 bucks. Stick around for the 2 mics soloed. They’re different for sure, but how much that difference is worth to you is your call.

Here is the Avatone BV1 MKII tube condenser mic. You can hear a pretty big difference on the mic’d guitar amp examples, just by changing the polar pattern and not even moving the mic at all. Again, the human voice is far harder to hear differences in mics, so much else plays into the sound and the voice is a pretty narrow frequency range in comparison to a full range instrument like a piano or something similar.