Kemper Profiler MK 2

[[Nathan]]

The merry go round, goalpost shifting and cope is amazing. Just because the kemper isn’t accurate and is lesser than today’s profiling tech doesn’t mean
- it can’t be used for gigs
- can’t provide professional sound
- can’t be used on records
- can’t be preferable over original amps

All these things and more can be true. The device is obviously robust, can service touring musicians and studios and was a pioneering approach when it came out. But at the same time it’s just not accurate to the source and pretty much all of us would like to see it be more accurate.

To bury your head in the sand and make excuses why it doesn’t need to be accurate just misses the point of striving for better and better tech. I’m happy fractal push the envelope and it sounds like helix are doing the same. I hope kemper does as well but all signs point to more of the same, and at its core that’s pretty much the collective disappointment with the mk2 and marketing involved

Of course nothing is final it could really deliver on these promises, but we’ll wait for the verdict on that.

 

[DLC86]

I've made blind tests where guitarists will pick Kemper over the real amp each time for "feel".

Btw, this reminded me of the first time I switched from a Zoom G1 (my first electric guitar rig) to real analog pedals: I can't forget how "harder" real pedals felt to play compared to the shitty over-compressed, smeared and lifeless distortions I was getting from the G1.
That felt better also cuz the output volume and the tone was basically the same regardless of how well and cleanly I played, while with real pedals I could suddenly hear all my mistakes, the little noises I was producing and the tone changing if I didn't pick/fret correctly.

Better feel =/= authentic feel

 

[KingsXJJ]

The merry go round, goalpost shifting and cope is amazing.

I’m glad you like it. I like it too.

If you’d like to go in to more depth on the matter, please see my white paper formulas listed earlier.

Despite your assertions, I still don’t see why the Kamper can’t be used for gigs or to get a professional sound. And on the contrary, I think it could be used on records and even preferable to amps for some. Just my two cents.

 

[KingsXJJ]

shitty over-compressed, smeared and lifeless distortions

I thought Cobain did ok with them

 

[DLC86]

Despite your assertions, I still don’t see why the Kamper can’t be used for gigs or to get a professional sound. And on the contrary, I think it could be used on records and even preferable to amps for some. Just my two cents.

Sure. I mean, gunshots have been used on records in place of snares, so basically anything can be used to get "professional sound".
Maybe we should request a guns sub-forum btw.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Sure. I mean, gunshots have been used on records in place of snares, so basically anything can be used to get "professional sound".
Maybe we should request a guns sub-forum btw.

But quality does matter. Peart used plywood on Tom Sawyer… not particle board.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

You’re not making an argument, you’re making an excuse.

I’m not excusing aliasing being more prevalent in Kemper. I’m accepting the premise of that assertion. Period.
I’m asking you to have some perspective.

In spite of the aliasing being ‘however bad’ you can prove it to be the reality is: it isn’t bad enough to hamper Kempers efforts to create and sell their profiling equipment with great success. Kemper profiling has been very well received since 2011.

My take on your diatribe about Kemper and aliasing is you have narrowed your perspective solely to aliasing and seem to suggest everything else that Kemper can build a product on has little to no importance because aliasing has infected their product. Just because you say you haven’t done that doesn’t mean you haven’t. Your words prove it. Including your post I’m quoting from.

You suggest success of sales, recordings using Kempers and industry accolades are an excuse, that I cite them to prop up an insincere question.

Bullshit. The question is sincere.

Here’s another. Why do you feel compelled to claim people just can’t hear it therefore their appreciation of Kemper is not a valid reason to support their choice? Maybe they don’t hear enough of it to be concerned?!?

Sure you’ll say you don’t mind their choice but then you’ll go on citing aliasing like a priest sloshing holy water on them as if they are possessed by the devil.

The reality of it is Kemper didn’t set out to build a perfect, aliasing free product. Certainly in their efforts they would have tried to get it as perfect as reasonably possible but the goal was to introduce a viable product that would be a hit with musicians. Not a laboratory instrument that can defeat any aliasing in the process of mimicking a guitar amp.
They built the Kemper Profiling Amp and it sounds good enough to be a viable product. They then went on to prove that over the last 14 years.

That success shows that any aliasing in Kemper is of a low enough level that your peers at large in the music industry disagree with your level of alarm. And they probably would take offense at your describing them as inadequate judges of good replication of a guitar amp sound.

You’re using popularity as a shield against criticism, as if mass opinion is proof of merit. It isn’t. It never has been.

The fact that you see the mention of the success of the product as a shield from criticism is interesting. Are you the defender of the consumer? You here to defend us from our ‘lack of good judgement’? You the white knight, taking on the black knight?

You have done more than your share of declaring your criticism. We get that….yet you insist we don’t get it, that we are all deaf or in denial etc.
What is the real point you are trying to make? It isn’t that Kemper has aliasing. You wore that out a long time ago. You are after a different result. What is it?

 

[[Nathan]]

Just because the kemper isn’t accurate and is lesser than today’s profiling tech doesn’t mean
- it can’t be used for gigs
- can’t provide professional sound
- can’t be used on records
- can’t be preferable over original amps

All these things and more can be true. The device is obviously robust, can service touring musicians and studios and was a pioneering approach when it came out.

Despite your assertions, I still don’t see why the Kamper can’t be used for gigs or to get a professional sound. And on the contrary, I think it could be used on records and even preferable to amps for some. Just my two cents.

You’ve just done the exact merry go round of what keeps happening here. Arguing a point noones arguing about I guess.

Accuracy still needs improving

 

[KingsXJJ]

You’ve just done the exact merry go round of what keeps happening here. Arguing a point noones arguing about I guess.

Accuracy still needs improving

We disagree and that’s fine. I still say the accuracy needs improving.

 

[[Nathan]]

We disagree and that’s fine. I still say the accuracy needs improving.

Ah so you’ve just decided to invoke poes law, what a great way to swerve into a fence in the middle of a conversation.

“Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture which says that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.”

 

[DLC86]

But quality does matter. Peart used plywood on Tom Sawyer… not particle board.

That's only because Tom Saw-yer, cuz if Tom Saw-his, Peart couldn't have played at all... His drums would be cut into little pieces, no matter the type of wood.

 

[DLC86]

This thread:

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[DLC86]

Quick! @[Nathan] is coming!

Good for him

 

[DLC86]

View attachment 47291

 

[Mikael Dez]

I’m glad you like it. I like it too.

If you’d like to go in to more depth on the matter, please see my white paper formulas listed earlier.

Despite your assertions, I still don’t see why the Kamper can’t be used for gigs or to get a professional sound. And on the contrary, I think it could be used on records and even preferable to amps for some. Just my two cents.

Your reading comprehension there is a bit fucked

 

[Sascha Franck]

You’re not making an argument, you’re making an excuse.

No, He's saying "good is good". Whether that can be quantified by science is irrelevant. People like what they get out of their Kempers. The majority of users do. You didn't. Some others didn't, either. And that's all there is about it.

Doesn't make any criticism invalid, doesn't mean there couldn't (or shouldn't) be improvements. But that's an entirely different thing.

Seriously, you do in fact sometimes come across as sort of implying that Kemper users had no idea about good tone or whatever.
As said before for umteenth times: There's a difference (and a pretty significant one at that) between "I like this device" and "this device is scientifically proveably worse than other devices". You often seem to ignore that.

Nobody is belitteling anyone's (and your) efforts to point out flaws, shortcomings and what not. But that does by no means make the Kemper a bad device or its users tasteless idiots.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Ah so you’ve just decided to invoke poes law, what a great way to swerve into a fence in the middle of a conversation.

“Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture which says that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.”

Thank you for the definition and saving me google time

 

[KingsXJJ]

 

[Mikael Dez]

King is single-handedly shitposting this thread into oblivion