Kemper Profiler MK 2

[KingsXJJ]

T’ain’t pretty, one could say.

Perfect line!

 

[DrewJD82]

The chip used for audio processing is the same. So the processing power is the same. The chip used for other things, like loading presets, is new.

This is precisely why I really question the validity that the MK1 can’t run the new profiles, but I’m also not educated in the least bit on DSP or the architecture around that stuff. It just seems odd to me that while there’s no improvement to the audio processor, but the one that makes switching presets and boot times faster is the reason why the MK1 can’t run the new profiling.

Kemper ain’t saying shit, that’s for sure.

 

[LP59]

This is precisely why I really question the validity that the MK1 can’t run the new profiles, but I’m also not educated in the least bit on DSP or the architecture around that stuff. It just seems odd to me that while there’s no improvement to the audio processor, but the one that makes switching presets and boot times faster is the reason why the MK1 can’t run the new profiling.

Kemper ain’t saying shit, that’s for sure.

It seems likely the Mk1 is capable of running the new profiles, but we'll never know for sure. It's possible the Mk2 is simply a way to get existing Stage and Toaster customers to pay if they want the new profiling.

 

[BenIfin]

The chip used for audio processing is the same. So the processing power is the same. The chip used for other things, like loading presets, is new.

This is precisely why I really question the validity that the MK1 can’t run the new profiles, but I’m also not educated in the least bit on DSP or the architecture around that stuff. It just seems odd to me that while there’s no improvement to the audio processor, but the one that makes switching presets and boot times faster is the reason why the MK1 can’t run the new profiling.

Kemper ain’t saying shit, that’s for sure.

It seems likely the Mk1 is capable of running the new profiles, but we'll never know for sure. It's possible the Mk2 is simply a way to get existing Stage and Toaster customers to pay if they want the new profiling.

Thanks. I would *guess* then that the reason the MK1 cannot *fully* run MK 2 Profiles is due deliberately coding the new MK2 Profiles to only run at a lower rez in the MK1 ... it would appear to me that there is no physical / technical / hardware problem ... just Kempers way of [potentially] forcing current MK1 owners to buy a MK2 if they want to run the MK2 Profiles in %100 full rez.

 

[namathan_zirwir]

This is precisely why I really question the validity that the MK1 can’t run the new profiles, but I’m also not educated in the least bit on DSP or the architecture around that stuff.

Because they want you to buy new hardware?

 

[Orvillain]

LOL. "Lost this debate". Seriously, I just jam, gig and practice with a smile on my face. Lots of others do as well. Sorry if you feel the need to "win" some kind of contest.

You act as if others haven't heard the Axe Fx III or Helix side by side with a Kemper. I can definitively say I have spent an entire day doing NOTHING but comparing the Axe and Kemper with two other seasoned musicians (all of which are active gigging musicians still today). Whatever it is that you have against Kemper, it eludes all of our ears.

I will admit, I haven't actually put a signal generator into a Kemper and then analyzed the output waveform (which I actually have the equipment to do if I cared enough to do it) ... and perhaps I might even find the aliasing on the scope (or frequency analysis of the stored waveform) you are so ardently insisting exists. What I am telling you is that it doesn't keep Kemper from sounding amazing whatever it is you have found.

I am not going to "lose this debate" as it isn't even open for debate with me. I don't need someone on a guitar forum to tell me what sounds good and what doesn't. I have been gigging live since my first band in 1982. I know good tone when I hear it. I have been fortunate to have the means to buy pretty much any gear that tickled my fancy for decades so it isn't like I couldn't own a Fractal Axe FX III if I wanted one. Having compared the FX III with my Kemper side by side for a day I prefer the workflow of the Kemper for live use. Certainly nothing wrong with the Axe FX III.... other than it is a real PITA to tweak to a specific tone you are looking to achieve (compared to Kemper's workflow for the same thing).

I replaced my VHT UL, 4x12 VHT cab, 2x12 VHT fat bottom cab (all with P90's) and a pedal board full of expensive crap (and a Fender BF) with my Kemper in 2013. I am used to owning the best tone money can buy (which is a crying shame since I am no where near worthy of such gear from a skill standpoint. I know many local musicians that far exceed my abilities). I don't defend Kemper because I bought it, in fact, I don't DEFEND it at all. I simply point out that it objectively sounds fantastic. Saying otherwise is just silly.

It isn't like I am going to hunt you down and force you to go buy a Kemper MK2. It doesn't matter to me what guitar rig you use.

I do think it only fair for those that might actually look to a thread like this for buying advice know that Kemper is a VERY worthy gig rig. IMO, it is the best tool for that purpose at this time. YMMV.

None of this is relevant to the debate about aliasing. I simply don't care about these words. Bring something of substance, otherwise pick up all those L's and run with them. I don't care either way.

 

[Orvillain]

I think your focus carries so much more weight than his. But only for you and maybe a few others.

When you try to project your ‘concerns’ about aliasing onto the buyers of these devices the reality of how aliasing has affected buyers doesn’t support your level of concern.
Yes the science can demonstrate you have a solid objective analysis of how these devices rank with regard to aliasing.
But the years and years of purchases, glowing reviews etc of Kempers are just as clearly an ‘objective indicator’ of how *little* that aliasing actually matters to the vast majority of buyers, players, studio engineers, etc etc.

But you don’t seem to objectively examine that phenomenon and wonder ‘why don’t they care more about it?’.
You jump right into diminishing Kemper and those who enjoy it for not being more concerned.
Why is that?

You’re not making an argument, you’re making an excuse. You’re using popularity as a shield against criticism, as if mass opinion is proof of merit. It isn’t. It never has been. And then you're trying to ask an insincere queston in order to try to make me look like the unreasonable one.

It is a complete nonsense. I've owned 6 Kempers. I've witnessed it from my own lived experience - which for some reason, is all you ever seem to care about. Or maybe it is that you think it is a "gotcha" - but it really isn't.

Whether someone buys a thing or not, uses a thing or not, endorses a thing or not, has very little to do with whether the thing hits a level of quality or not. When the topic is something like aliasing, which is inherently technical, not immediately obvious to the average user, it’s silly to treat broad acceptance as proof of inaudibility or irrelevance.

You're conflating two things - mass appeal and actual quality - as if one proves the other. It doesn’t. You’re pointing to sales numbers and user satisfaction like they cancel out measurable flaws. They don’t. That’s just marketing logic dressed up as analysis.

People buying Kempers in droves doesn’t mean aliasing isn’t a problem. It means most people either can’t hear it, don’t care, or don’t know what it is. That’s not a defense. That’s an indictment of how low the bar is for what’s “good enough.”

The same reason mp3 is so wildly used, and the same reason so much music is listened to through phone speakers; the entire thing is a devaluation of art, and therefore life. The Kemper is a death-cult device.

What you call “diminishing,” I call being honest. If the product aliases - and it does - then pointing that out isn’t arrogance. It’s accountability. You don't get to wave away technical criticism just because the fanbase is big and happy.

If you can’t handle someone pointing out the emperor has no clothes, that’s fine. But don’t confuse your comfort with consensus. And don’t expect everyone to stay quiet just because the gallery of seals is clapping.

I've just left a company that churns out cheap kit, mid-level kit, and very expensive kit. The cheap (read: not very good!) kit makes all the money. That's proof enough for me that the barometer for quality cannot be how successful something is in the marketplace. It is simply not relevant to the concept of quality.

 

[Eagle]

Since when was accurate a considered the most important part. With a tube amp it’s completely irrelevant. Yes models are supposed to be digital versions of actual amps but sounding good is all that matters. Kemper has a more amp like experience to the player than the others already.

 

[Orvillain]

Since when was accurate a considered the most important part. With a tube amp it’s completely irrelevant. Yes models are supposed to be digital versions of actual amps but sounding good is all that matters. Kemper has a more amp like experience to the player than the others already.

No one has ever said it is the most important part. In fact I've said the opposite several times in several Kemper threads, and aliasing is not related to concerns about accuracy either btw.

Here's pretty much what happens every single time - I say a thing in reference to the Kemper, on a technical level. It gets misconstrued and deliberately misrepresented and transformed from a technical point to a Grauniad opinion column, and then people get cross or offended or just somewhat bothered by it. Every single time.

 

[Eagle]

No one has ever said it is the most important part. In fact I've said the opposite several times in several Kemper threads, and aliasing is not related to concerns about accuracy either btw.

Here's pretty much what happens every single time - I say a thing in reference to the Kemper, on a technical level. It gets misconstrued and deliberately misrepresented and transformed from a technical point to a Grauniad opinion column, and then people get cross or offended or just somewhat bothered by it. Every single time.

Ok you don’t like it.

 

[Orvillain]

Ok you don’t like it.

I think that much is clear!!!

I'm just saying, I don't like it on multiple levels!

 

[Eagle]

Yes it’s bad from all angles and even on a shelf

 

[Orvillain]

But if, in some magical way, MKII's 'proper' firmware comes out in the summer, and just absolutely tears new arseholes left, right, and centre, then I will be very intruiged to try one out. But if the reports on the ground are that this "new" capturing tech is just reheated MK1 tech, then I probably won't bother.

 

[Eagle]

But if, in some magical way, MKII's 'proper' firmware comes out in the summer, and just absolutely tears new arseholes left, right, and centre, then I will be very intruiged to try one out. But if the reports on the ground are that this "new" capturing tech is just reheated MK1 tech, then I probably won't bother.

I suspect that it’s only out because parts in the original are getting obsolete and will become unavailable. It strikes me like a mark 2 axe fx3 in as much as the upgrade is not one.

 

[Orvillain]

I suspect that it’s only out because parts in the original are getting obsolete and will become unavailable. It strikes me like a mark 2 axe fx3 in as much as the upgrade is not one.

I feel like you might be right, but I hope you're not. Because the song and dance made about the MKII is a whole other level compared to the Axe3 MKI > MKII transition. Fractal were relatively quiet about that change to the SKU, and they don't take features away or prevent MKI from getting advancements in the future. Whereas on paper, that isn't the case with Kemper MKII.

 

[Eagle]

I feel like you might be right, but I hope you're not. Because the song and dance made about the MKII is a whole other level compared to the Axe3 MKI > MKII transition. Fractal were relatively quiet about that change to the SKU, and they don't take features away or prevent MKI from getting advancements in the future. Whereas on paper, that isn't the case with Kemper MKII.

That part is a marketing opportunity but we’ll see.
If it is a noticeable change we will see an Axe4 soon because they can’t be seen to be last generation even if they are still ahead.

 

[Orvillain]

That part is a marketing opportunity but we’ll see.
If it is a noticeable change we will see an Axe4 soon because they can’t be seen to be last generation even if they are still ahead.

I'm not sure about that. I think you're more likely to see software updates to the AxeIII for at least the next 2 years, while other SKU's like the VP4 are released alongside it, and then perhaps an Axe4 in 2027/2028; to pull a completely invented timeframe out of my ass.

 

[Eagle]

I'm not sure about that. I think you're more likely to see software updates to the AxeIII for at least the next 2 years, while other SKU's like the VP4 are released alongside it, and then perhaps an Axe4 in 2027/2028; to pull a completely invented timeframe out of my ass.

I don’t realistically think axe needs an update anytime soon but it’s going to suffer in the market with the new generation of rivals.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Since when was accurate a considered the most important part. With a tube amp it’s completely irrelevant. Yes models are supposed to be digital versions of actual amps but sounding good is all that matters. Kemper has a more amp like experience to the player than the others already.

Kemper isn’t a modeler. It’s a profiler. Its only job is to be accurate to the source by its own definition. The last sentence is anecdotal. I couldn’t hear aliasing, still didn’t like the Kemper for the music I play. Low end sounded like stuffed buttholes.

 

[Eagle]

Kemper isn’t a modeler. It’s a profiler. Its only job is to be accurate to the source by its own definition. The last sentence is anecdotal. I couldn’t hear aliasing, still didn’t like the Kemper for the music I play. Low end sounded like stuffed buttholes.

Are you an expert in stuffed butholes?
All an amp has to do is sound good and provide a good playing experience to the user. It also depends enormously on the profile and what you play it through.