Kemper Profiler MK 2

[paisleywookiee]

A new Player with level 3 is $977. They’re selling those now, right?

I guess to some capacity. We’ll never know the amount of suckers that ponied up.

 

[LP59]

There probably aren't a lot of people upgrading their Player to level 3. That's why Kemper shuffled the features around.

They are selling a lot of Players though. For $700 it may not match the HX Stomp feature for feature, but it gives people who have always wanted a Kemper, but who use a pedal board, a small pedal they can put on their board alongside their favorite pedals. There are a lot of people out there who fit that description.

 

[Dimiguitar]

The aliasing fix wasn't good enough, unfortunately.

For me it was fine, but I can understand people not being satisfied with it.

 

[Tanax]

I am not sure I can explain accurately in a few words but aliasing is basically high frequency reflections that shouldn't be there. It is mostly at a much lower level than the main signal and at frequencies few if any of us can hear, but it looks really bad on a graph if you make the graphs to look really bad and then you can make YouTube videos and forum posts bashing various products for their bad aliasing.

In some cases it is audible and then it should be addressed, but it has been blown WAY WAY out of proportion online these days.

You may find videos like this educational:



Edit: Start at 7:50 if you're in a hurry, but I think the whole video is worth watching.

Not bueno. Short story the way I understand it is artifacts introduced in to the signal.

Thanks for the explanations! And that video was great.

 

[AlbertA]

Thanks for the explanations! And that video was great.

Check this out: https://thegearforum.com/threads/modelers-and-aliasing.1815/page-7#post-60757
<and that thread>

 

[OneEng]

Which 3 button device are you referring to? You lost me there LOL. Just curious, not disagreeing with anything. A Stomp maybe?

Mostly, I am referring to the $700 and up devices. That just seems silly steep for a 3 button device.... many times with limited functionality compared to its big brother. But then, take it with a grain of salt as I only use my device for gigging so my take on what is "mandatory" is slanted.

I think there are two main reasons people like to diss Kemper (and actually I was one of them until I got my Stage):
1. Kemper was the first to profile amps and actually make famous pros ditch their amps live. There is the common theme of „amp sounds better than profiler“ which is glued to the Kemper product.
2. Many people tried Kempers when they came out around 2012. But profiles and effects weren’t as good back then as they are today. There have been significant improvements in (Liquid) profiling, the internal effects and the quality of commercial profiles, but if you made up your mind over ten years ago, it’s gonna be hard to change that without the first hand experience

That's fair. I think it is also true that better capture devices have come out over time and despite my distain for the heavy use of a Null test to determine the value of one device over another, there are many who buy into this idea.

When the Axe III Fx first came out, a buddy of mine in another band got one of the first ones off the boat. Me, him, and a friend with a Mesa Dual Rectifier spent 12 hours one day swapping guitars, cabs, speakers, and modelers/amps. There was no one that walked away that day thinking that any of the 3 rigs were "substandard"; however, the Kemper took the day as the best overall in its ability to quickly be tweaked into a great sounding rig. We ran the gambit from various types of clean sounds, to low gain slight breakup, to classic rock distortions to outright metal sounds as well as trying to achieve various effects. All 3 were quite good (the mesa of course had a pedal board to go with it). At the end of the day, no one thought that any of the 3 were unworthy of a good gig rig.

I've personally never played through one, but I also don't doubt it's capabilities to sound great because I've heard it do exactly that countless times since bands started using them live. I'm just not sold on the merits of selling an MK2 at that price for what it's actually offering.

The MK2 is selling at the same price as the MK1 was ($1400 Rack , $1500 Stage, $1800 toaster). I personally don't understand the toaster price at all compared to the other 2. You can get a package deal with the rack and foot controller for around $1800 .... which is my poison of choice since it is the best gig rig for a clean stage.

Since the Stadium isn't out yet, I see no reason for Kemper to lower their price just yet; however, I think it very possible they will after a while. Surely that didn't spend much on the MK2 development.

Do you believe that these prices are out of line for what you get compared to other devices on the market?

They are selling (a lot of) Level III Players which is about $1k.

My guess is more are via the slippery slope upgrade path.

It is a lot of money for limited I/O, no display (sheesh, there's a clear spot for a tiny one), no fx loop, etc. But it has pretty much everything else, the sounds are full blown great and the device is as powerful as the big units.

It occupies a unique place right now among very portable, full featured, "top tier" units. I was hoping Fractal, Line6, a nam player, or Neural would have a unit that worked better for me. Maybe 12-18 months.

Yea, I can't get my head around paying 1K for something with 3 switches on it. I do wonder of the Stadium Stomp will be full featured or not. Certainly this has not been the case for the FM3 or the Helix Stomp today. It is only the case (mostly the case) with the Kemper Player.

The beauty of different opinions, I’m still happy with the KPP which lvl is literally half of an fm3t in Germany.

Heck even at lvl3 it’s still 450 less.

So now I couldn’t be arsed to go back to Fractal at EU prices.

This is where I am wondering how things work out in the market as well. Kemper at $700 offers more capabilities than any other 3 switch offering on the market as far as I know.

Noticeable or extreme aliasing - which is what the Kemper demonstrably has

Sounds good to a great many people. I hear nothing displeasing nor does anyone in the crowd. Plenty of A level touring acts are also feeling pretty good about their performances. It would certainly seem like such a glaring and horrible sounding piece of gear would have difficulty with this level of discerning musicians.

I'm guessing that will be the price for Helix Stadium Stomp.

I agree. Sadly, it just seems like the pricing KEEPS going up generation after generation.

I wonder if Kemper isn't going to end up as the value king in the live gig scene? If you want a full featured gig rig at half the price, you go Kemper?

I'm not sure how much room they have to reduce their pricing though. The metal case and process to put the thing together looks pretty labor intensive to me. Of course, that "built like a brick shit house" feel is comforting for people that gig a lot (or tour).

The profiles you liked must of really had issues because it doesn’t bother me that much. I like the way it sounds and feels. I do use it a lower volume and I don’t use IRs with it so that is probably making a difference.

Yea, my old Morgan AC20 rig (on my now outdated MK1 Rack) sounds just as glorious today as it did 10 years ago . I can love on that crappy old aliased sounding mess all day long . I did swap out the legacy reverb for the new natural verb engine . Aside from that ..... just glorious to my ears.

 

[Orvillain]

Sounds good to a great many people. I hear nothing displeasing nor does anyone in the crowd. Plenty of A level touring acts are also feeling pretty good about their performances. It would certainly seem like such a glaring and horrible sounding piece of gear would have difficulty with this level of discerning musicians.

I don't care. Aliasing is objectively present, in a way that it isn't for the Axe FX III or Helix.

You have lost this debate multiple times now, because I'm focusing on objective reality, and you're focusing on fallacious appeals to authority, and your feelings.

 

[Eagle]

It’s only really about “ do you like the sound and feel ?” And for me it’s yes for the way I use it. Holdsworth used a DG1000 on sixteen men of tain and got some of his best tones . Accuracy in a modeller is feel as well and none gets that part.

 

[TubeStack]

sixteen men of taint

Never heard of that one.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Never heard of that one.

It isn’t pretty.

 

[LP59]

It isn’t pretty.

Apparently it feels good.

 

[OneEng]

I don't care. Aliasing is objectively present, in a way that it isn't for the Axe FX III or Helix.

You have lost this debate multiple times now, because I'm focusing on objective reality, and you're focusing on fallacious appeals to authority, and your feelings.

LOL. "Lost this debate". Seriously, I just jam, gig and practice with a smile on my face. Lots of others do as well. Sorry if you feel the need to "win" some kind of contest.

You act as if others haven't heard the Axe Fx III or Helix side by side with a Kemper. I can definitively say I have spent an entire day doing NOTHING but comparing the Axe and Kemper with two other seasoned musicians (all of which are active gigging musicians still today). Whatever it is that you have against Kemper, it eludes all of our ears.

I will admit, I haven't actually put a signal generator into a Kemper and then analyzed the output waveform (which I actually have the equipment to do if I cared enough to do it) ... and perhaps I might even find the aliasing on the scope (or frequency analysis of the stored waveform) you are so ardently insisting exists. What I am telling you is that it doesn't keep Kemper from sounding amazing whatever it is you have found.

I am not going to "lose this debate" as it isn't even open for debate with me. I don't need someone on a guitar forum to tell me what sounds good and what doesn't. I have been gigging live since my first band in 1982. I know good tone when I hear it. I have been fortunate to have the means to buy pretty much any gear that tickled my fancy for decades so it isn't like I couldn't own a Fractal Axe FX III if I wanted one. Having compared the FX III with my Kemper side by side for a day I prefer the workflow of the Kemper for live use. Certainly nothing wrong with the Axe FX III.... other than it is a real PITA to tweak to a specific tone you are looking to achieve (compared to Kemper's workflow for the same thing).

I replaced my VHT UL, 4x12 VHT cab, 2x12 VHT fat bottom cab (all with P90's) and a pedal board full of expensive crap (and a Fender BF) with my Kemper in 2013. I am used to owning the best tone money can buy (which is a crying shame since I am no where near worthy of such gear from a skill standpoint. I know many local musicians that far exceed my abilities). I don't defend Kemper because I bought it, in fact, I don't DEFEND it at all. I simply point out that it objectively sounds fantastic. Saying otherwise is just silly.

It isn't like I am going to hunt you down and force you to go buy a Kemper MK2. It doesn't matter to me what guitar rig you use.

I do think it only fair for those that might actually look to a thread like this for buying advice know that Kemper is a VERY worthy gig rig. IMO, it is the best tool for that purpose at this time. YMMV.

 

[OneEng]

Oh, and all 3 of us decided that the size and weight of the Kemper was WAY better than the Axe III Fx. What on earth do they have in there anyway? Lead bricks?

Seriously though, I suspect this is the LEAST of what anyone would care about. I don't know (without looking it up) what my VHT 4x12 cab weighed, but it was a handful even in my 30's when I was still super-human .

 

[KingsXJJ]

LOL. "Lost this debate". Seriously, I just jam, gig and practice with a smile on my face. Lots of others do as well. Sorry if you feel the need to "win" some kind of contest.

You act as if others haven't heard the Axe Fx III or Helix side by side with a Kemper. I can definitively say I have spent an entire day doing NOTHING but comparing the Axe and Kemper with two other seasoned musicians (all of which are active gigging musicians still today). Whatever it is that you have against Kemper, it eludes all of our ears.

I will admit, I haven't actually put a signal generator into a Kemper and then analyzed the output waveform (which I actually have the equipment to do if I cared enough to do it) ... and perhaps I might even find the aliasing on the scope (or frequency analysis of the stored waveform) you are so ardently insisting exists. What I am telling you is that it doesn't keep Kemper from sounding amazing whatever it is you have found.

I am not going to "lose this debate" as it isn't even open for debate with me. I don't need someone on a guitar forum to tell me what sounds good and what doesn't. I have been gigging live since my first band in 1982. I know good tone when I hear it. I have been fortunate to have the means to buy pretty much any gear that tickled my fancy for decades so it isn't like I couldn't own a Fractal Axe FX III if I wanted one. Having compared the FX III with my Kemper side by side for a day I prefer the workflow of the Kemper for live use. Certainly nothing wrong with the Axe FX III.... other than it is a real PITA to tweak to a specific tone you are looking to achieve (compared to Kemper's workflow for the same thing).

I replaced my VHT UL, 4x12 VHT cab, 2x12 VHT fat bottom cab (all with P90's) and a pedal board full of expensive crap (and a Fender BF) with my Kemper in 2013. I am used to owning the best tone money can buy (which is a crying shame since I am no where near worthy of such gear from a skill standpoint. I know many local musicians that far exceed my abilities). I don't defend Kemper because I bought it, in fact, I don't DEFEND it at all. I simply point out that it objectively sounds fantastic. Saying otherwise is just silly.

It isn't like I am going to hunt you down and force you to go buy a Kemper MK2. It doesn't matter to me what guitar rig you use.

I do think it only fair for those that might actually look to a thread like this for buying advice know that Kemper is a VERY worthy gig rig. IMO, it is the best tool for that purpose at this time. YMMV.

Does this apply to Camper as well? Asking for a Tim.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I don't care. Aliasing is objectively present, in a way that it isn't for the Axe FX III or Helix.

You have lost this debate multiple times now, because I'm focusing on objective reality, and you're focusing on fallacious appeals to authority, and your feelings.

I think your focus carries so much more weight than his. But only for you and maybe a few others.

When you try to project your ‘concerns’ about aliasing onto the buyers of these devices the reality of how aliasing has affected buyers doesn’t support your level of concern.
Yes the science can demonstrate you have a solid objective analysis of how these devices rank with regard to aliasing.
But the years and years of purchases, glowing reviews etc of Kempers are just as clearly an ‘objective indicator’ of how *little* that aliasing actually matters to the vast majority of buyers, players, studio engineers, etc etc.

But you don’t seem to objectively examine that phenomenon and wonder ‘why don’t they care more about it?’.
You jump right into diminishing Kemper and those who enjoy it for not being more concerned.
Why is that?

 

[BenIfin]

I've posted this before but it remains, to me, very unclear.

Does the MK2 have faster more powerful chips than the MK1 ?

Or is it just that - perhaps - the old chips were E.O.L - so the MK2 just has new replacements that are, in effect, the same as the MK1 in terms of raw processing power?

 

[KingsXJJ]

I've posted this before but it remains, to me, very unclear.

Does the MK2 have faster more powerful chips than the MK1 ?

Or is it just that - perhaps - the old chips were E.O.L - so the MK2 just has new replacements that are, in effect, the same as the MK1 in terms of raw processing power?

My understanding is that the MKII has an extra one. So doing the math, I would say yes, it is faster. About twice as fast roughly.

 

[TubeStack]

It isn’t pretty.

T’ain’t pretty, one could say.

 

[LP59]

I've posted this before but it remains, to me, very unclear.

Does the MK2 have faster more powerful chips than the MK1 ?

Or is it just that - perhaps - the old chips were E.O.L - so the MK2 just has new replacements that are, in effect, the same as the MK1 in terms of raw processing power?

The chip used for audio processing is the same. So the processing power is the same. The chip used for other things, like loading presets, is new.

 

[Jarick]

Bert Meulendijk profiles sound fucking awesome. I rediscovered the Smallbox ones I got a couple years so and sounds great. Running it in the loop of the Axe 3 to compare quickly, really captures the low end thump nicely.