Kemper Player - 1st [ Paid for ? ] Update coming very soon ?

Fwiw, I think for what it can do softwarewise, the price-performance-ratio of the full Player enchilada isn't too bad. It's the partially piss poor hardware that I possibly wouldn't even buy if it was half the price.
 
Kemper Rig Manager for iOS updated again today (October 2nd). Can anyone confirm that it is working fine with Level 2 and Level 3 now, with iOS 18?
 
I think you've made a lot of assumptions that are incorrect and you are mixing up the areas of concern in order to paint a pretty pessimistic view of my position. If you want to talk about bias, aren't you - as a user and owner of Kemper products - equally open to bias against people like me who don't think that we're being offered a good deal?

My position is not based on bias. It is based on experience, both as a user and also as someone working in music tech for almost 18 years now. I posted my video above that shows objectively that the Kemper isn't accurate. That isn't bias. It is objectively true. You don't have to value accuracy, but you don't get to tell me that I shouldn't find it important.

As I said previously, it is people "like" me (not me exactly, but other professional engineers and people with large amp collections!) that give Kemper a huge amount of value, by providing content for the platform. The people who don't profile simply don't offer as much value to the eco-system.

Now I would say that the value in the other Kemper SKU's can easily be justified by the form factor and the I/O, and the hardware details like the screen and footswitch count. The value is not solely defined by the firmware or features. They didn't need to limit and redact software functionality in order to create USP's for the Player. It already had them by virtue of the fact that it could fit easily on a pedalboard full of Strymon and Boss pedals!

The way the tiers are split up seem pretty cynical to me. All of the base functionality like morphing, rig x-fade time, spillover tweaks, parallel path, loop, more banks, beat scanner, stuff that isn't necessarily DSP related, but rather forms a chunk of the user experience... those things should be level 1 and level 2 .... level 3 should be solely effects, and the extended number of effect blocks.

That would be the consumer-friendly implementation of all of this. But no. Kemper have put you in a position where you have to spend an extra $300 on a $600 product, in order to get baseline functionality that arguably should've been there in the first place.

For these reasons, I would posit that the person who has a pedalboard full of effects they already love, are much more likely to look at the Nano Cortex than the Kemper Player.

I think the pricing was deliberately done to extract as much money from the user as possible, in a rather cynical fashion. That is fully their right. But it is also fully our right to be able to analyse it and judge whether we think it is worth it. All told - it isn't the way I would choose to do business, if I had that choice.
You have completely dodged the point I raised...so many times...it surely is purposeful not an oversight on your part.

Switch count, 'fits in the box' already 'in the box' etc etc 'what you would have included vs what they included...etc etc. Comparisons on charts and graphs about accuracy etc etc. None of that is what I took issue with.
You, me , Kemper, we all have a right to our own preference for these things. Each of us has legitimate value assigned according to our preference...subjective...

What no one has right to is to define the others motive for their preference as a result of greed or any other nefarious bent. At least not without some kind of evidence. And that is where my suspicion of potential bias on your part comes in...trying to find cause for the unfounded accusation. You cite 'consumer-friendly' as some kind of metric you are judging them by. Who is the arbiter of 'consumer-friendly'? That is a conveniently nebulous authority to invoke.

Suffice to say, my perspective is this:

If you're a hardcore Kemper loyalist, and it does everything you need and you don't mind the nickel and diming. Buy it. No skin off my nose.

If you want better effects, better capture technology (leading to better and more trustworthy captures even if you don't capture your own), and if you want to continue to use your own effects options without having to spaff a bunch of money up the wall in order to get baseline functionality, then I'd say get a Nano Cortex or a Dimehead NAM pedal, and build your rig around those.

If you're someone who isn't that fussed about having captures of amplifiers, then I'd recommend neither of these approaches. I'd recommend a HX Stomp or an FM3, budget permitting.
Not a hard core loyalist of any brand here. I'm a Wh*re for digital gear, a love hate relationship with all of the top contenders. For a small all in one the Player has even the HX Stomp beat -for my preferences- I've had at least two Stomps spanning years to support that comparison. On paper I know the Stomp ticks more boxes. However that paper has never aided my particular work flow, nor ever made me want to switch it on and play.

And why call it 'nickel and diming' as if it is modeled by IK Amplitube? Its a Player with two extra options of capability priced to accommodate more people. If you just want to build a pedal board around the basic rig you don't need to buy the full version. It is a sensible solution. For me I want the whole rig, pre and post effects, morphing, built in USB audio, headphones, physical knobs dedicated to the common stuff. midi, some stomp switches for when I want it off the desk on to the floor and buttons for bank and rig selection etc all with no menu diving. Hardly over priced at all in my opinion just compared to most multifx boxes on the market today.
 
What no one has right to is to define the others motive for their preference [snip]
You're doing exactly the same thing dude when you insist that they made XYZ decision in order to avoid devaluing their other products.

And why call it 'nickel and diming'
Because they're forcing users who only want feature X, to buy two tiers that get them feature A, B, C, D, X, Y... when they only wanted X. I stated it pretty categorically:
Also the REQUIREMENT that you already own level 2 in order to use level 3.... that stinks.


I'm not going to do a tit-for-tat with you. Got plenty of other shit to discuss that would be much more fruitful!
 
As I've said before, I'm not against the paid "upgrades" for the Kemper Player - I just think it should have been a single update that gave you everything at the cost of the level 2 upgrade.

This still wouldn't have appeased those who are vehemently opposed to the idea of paid upgrades to "unlock" hardware, but it would have made the deal more palatable for those who aren't.

The overwhelming feeling I get is that this has been very much an own goal for Kemper - many of the regulars on their own forums aren't too happy with the offering either.
 
people hold Kemper in high regard and hate to see them going down this stupid route

If you’d been using their products for a decade+ (or ever) and were still current w class-leading stellar tones on ancient (by modern “standards”) fully-supported hardware, you might view what this launch supposedly portends in a different light.

I don’t speculate about “business” decisions. But the only thing about this launch that’s different is that the Player offers a cheaper in to their ecosystem, and as of today doesn’t profile. That part has been the most requested feature by non-owners since 2013, when I began using the Kemper.

Historically this, and every other thing he’s done since forever, has made C Kemper an Internet pariah—but mainly to people who don’t use his gear (and to a few very vocal detractors who aren’t able to get the same chug going on his devices that many pro metal acts do).

Other than that sure at some point everything we do musically may leave hardware behind. But nothing that’s happened here suggests a new business model from Kemper. I wish it did. I wish there was native Mac software that replicated everything I can achieve with their hardware.

No one needs a Kemper, vs anything else, I’m sure.

But these effects, controls and pure amp tones makes this an insane little elegant box. A quarter-size version of their vintage looking screen that only displayed a patch name might have been nice, but so what. I usually make subtle adjustments with one or two parameters using my ears, not my eyes.

I don’t know of something that comes anywhere close. And yes it’s expensive if you’re comparing it to .. anything. That’s valid. But for many of us it still feels like a deal.

ymmv

boarding™
 
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(and to a few very vocal detractors who aren’t able to get the same chug going on his devices that many pro metal acts do).
You can say my name yknow! Look - it is very simple. I provided evidence. I don't care if pro metal acts get along just fine. That is a logical fallacy known as the appeal to authority. It is nonsense. Stick to the facts.

Even saying "not able to get the same chug going" is a misrepresentation. I say in the video and I've said here quite clearly, that all jokes and sarcasm aside, it doesn't sound bad. But other units sound better. That is my opinion. You guys keep saying you're not fanboi's, but every single friggin' time you try to tackle any criticism, you act just like fanboi's !!!
 
You can say my name yknow! Look - it is very simple. I provided evidence. I don't care if pro metal acts get along just fine. That is a logical fallacy known as the appeal to authority. It is nonsense. Stick to the facts.

Even saying "not able to get the same chug going" is a misrepresentation. I say in the video and I've said here quite clearly, that all jokes and sarcasm aside, it doesn't sound bad. But other units sound better. That is my opinion. You guys keep saying you're not fanboi's, but every single friggin' time you try to tackle any criticism, you act just like fanboi's !!!
I’ll try to be not a dick. But that video of yours makes amp and Kemper sound like it needs help.

As in my ear is next to the cone. I’ve tried decades to not let this happen.
So your bad is a one man’s ceiling is another’s floor.

In general there are captures on tonex, Kemper, nam, tonocracy that differ and I might tend to prefer one over the other, but the “sounds bad” concept is more driver than car.

But hey what do I know I’m just a shill
 
I’ll try to be not a dick. But that video of yours makes amp and Kemper sound like it needs help.

As in my ear is next to the cone. I’ve tried decades to not let this happen.
So your bad is a one man’s ceiling is another’s floor.

In general there are captures on tonex, Kemper, nam, tonocracy that differ and I might tend to prefer one over the other, but the “sounds bad” concept is more driver than car.

But hey what do I know I’m just a shill
whether you like the tone is a totally different subject to whether the kemper is capturing it accurately. If it was dialled in to your taste, are you saying the kemper would resemble the amp more closely?
 
I’ll try to be not a dick. But that video of yours makes amp and Kemper sound like it needs help.

As in my ear is next to the cone. I’ve tried decades to not let this happen.
So your bad is a one man’s ceiling is another’s floor.

In general there are captures on tonex, Kemper, nam, tonocracy that differ and I might tend to prefer one over the other, but the “sounds bad” concept is more driver than car.

But hey what do I know I’m just a shill
Ed, Ed, Ed....... show me a tone of yours that actually sounds any good, and then we'll talk. Until then, you're a shadow.

I even say in the video that it sounds alright. It just isn't the same as the amp. The discussion here is about accuracy. Not whether you subjectively like a tone or not.
 
whether you like the tone is a totally different subject to whether the kemper is capturing it accurately. If it was dialled in to your taste, are you saying the kemper would resemble the amp more closely?
I’m not talking about accurate. Because when we go down that road I’d just use an amp.

So the question becomes does the convince supersede accuracy. And the answer is Kemper wins by a long shot for my needs.

And what I like or don’t like in this conversation is moot, what matters is it worth 300 bucks to have the other features.
 
Ed, Ed, Ed....... show me a tone of yours that actually sounds any good, and then we'll talk. Until then, you're a shadow.

I even say in the video that it sounds alright. It just isn't the same as the amp. The discussion here is about accuracy. Not whether you subjectively like a tone or not.
Was good enough to sell a boatload of fractals.
Was good enough to reinvigorate rock guitar with GH3

What have you done with all that gear of yours
 
So the question becomes does the convince supersede accuracy. And the answer is Kemper wins by a long shot for my needs.
Why not just pick the multiple products that have a similar form factor (convenient) and better accuracy. You don't have to choose one or the other anymore
 
Was good enough to sell a boatload of fractals.
Was good enough to reinvigorate rock guitar with GH3

What have you done with all that gear of yours
I'm just gonna have let Shania deal with you.

unimpressed country music GIF by Shania Twain
 
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