Jim Lill: "In-the-room tone doesn't matter" and he's absolutely right

I’d be totally down to watch someone make videos that reach different conclusions to what Jim’s show - so far anyone who claims to have a different experience to what he shows only writes about it on facebook/forums.

I think he’s pretty good about not saying his opinion as much as just showing what influence different things have on the final sound.

People get their knickers in a twist over context and what his videos are getting at - I think they just simply show how different factors can influence sound
 
RaceU4her said:
Slightly different maybe, if my tone in the mix though is too woofy and dark I don’t think moving my cab from my padded dead closet to my hardwood floored open living room is gonna do a whole lot.
Click to expand...


I mean, it might do something - a padded dead closet might have standing waves down in the low hundreds, that's a pretty woofy area. Get the amp out into a nice room and the low end might suddenly seem... nicer. And maybe you can pull the mic back from the speaker a bit and get some more air, getting a bigger slice of the various harmonics different parts of the cone are putting out. Just hypothetically.
 
Cirrus said:
I mean, it might do something - a padded dead closet might have standing waves down in the low hundreds, that's a pretty woofy area. Get the amp out into a nice room and the low end might suddenly seem... nicer. And maybe you can pull the mic back from the speaker a bit and get some more air, getting a bigger slice of the various harmonics different parts of the cone are putting out. Just hypothetically.
Click to expand...


I don’t see how a directional microphone like a 57 right on the grill cloth at concert levels is going to pick up some low standing waves in the back corner of the room, but let’s just say there is a slight difference.. it’s still going to be way less of a difference recorded vs the difference we hear between the padded closet and the open room which is what I think is the point of this video.
 
RaceU4her said:
I don’t see how a directional microphone like a 57 right on the grill cloth at concert levels is going to pick up some low standing waves in the back corner of the room, but let’s just say there is a slight difference.. it’s still going to be way less of a difference recorded vs the difference we hear between the padded closet and the open room which is what I think is the point of this video.
Click to expand...
Also: Mic proximity effect >>>>>>>>> standing waves in the closet.
 
RaceU4her said:
I don’t see how a directional microphone like a 57 right on the grill cloth at concert levels is going to pick up some low standing waves in the back corner of the room, but let’s just say there is a slight difference.. it’s still going to be way less of a difference recorded vs the difference we hear between the padded closet and the open room which is what I think is the point of this video.
Click to expand...

Not sure if that's a fair reply really, standing waves were in relation to the closet, not the room, and yes in a small enclosure any standing waves might well be at a ratio relative to the direct signal from the speaker to matter. How directional do you think an SM57 is at, say, 150hz? Less than you might think;

SM57-Charts-1024x323.png
 
My amp sounds different in different venues through my in ears. Sometimes dramatically. Although I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong and it's in my head or that it has to due with different parts tolerances of different SM57s :idk
 
spawnofthesith said:
My amp sounds different in different venues through my in ears. Sometimes dramatically. Although I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong and it's in my head or that it has to due with different parts tolerances of different SM57s :idk
Click to expand...
The issue that the video is wrestling with, though, is whether what you hear in the room can help you make adjustments so your in-ear sound is consistent. I think you would have a much easier time comparing a recording from your favorite room played through your in-ears to the sound of your amp through in-ears in a bad room to figure out how to adjust the setup in the bad room to more closely approximate the sound you got in the good room.

The point isn't "the room doesn't matter", but that "the room sound is not a good objective standard". At least...that's what I took from the video.
 
Tone in the room doesn’t matter … unless you are playing in a room with other musicians … or in a room by yourself.
If you are not in a situation that requires or allows micing your cab, then it matters quite a bit. Which is I would suspect THE MAJORITY of most gigs for most guitarists. Not trying to cast any dispersions on the digital crowd, but every try being the only musician in a band going direct? Not a good experience IMO.

ALSO what bothers me about this guy is the schtick. I actually somewhat enjoy his content, but the knee deep “awwh shucks guys I’m just a simple country boy” routine get so tired, so fast. Who shoots video of themselves “thinking” to cut too every time the phrase “so I thought about it” is mentioned?

ALSO ALSO I have no dog in this fight but if your balls are actually swelling, at a minimum you need to get to a pharmacy today! Get a good cream and I also recommend cutting out bread. Please keep us posted!

The every man’s “thinking” guitarist. Apparently it makes you look like a baby getting a rectal temp taken.
4908D535-0167-44C8-9B45-B8AFDFB96576.jpeg
 
eriwebnerr said:
If you are not in a situation that requires or allows micing your cab, then it matters quite a bit. Which is I would suspect THE MAJORITY of most gigs for most guitarists.
Click to expand...
Wait, you're saying the majority of gigs for people do not use mics? Or am I misreading your post? Because I've not been to a gig in ages, that weren't micing the amp, or using a DI.
 
Cirrus said:
Not sure if that's a fair reply really, standing waves were in relation to the closet, not the room, and yes in a small enclosure any standing waves might well be at a ratio relative to the direct signal from the speaker to matter. How directional do you think an SM57 is at, say, 150hz? Less than you might think;

SM57-Charts-1024x323.png
Click to expand...


well i can do it really fair, ill record a clip with a 57 in the super dead closet, then ill move it to the open hardwood floor room which is gonna sound completely different standing next to it with frequencies bouncing all over the place and we will see if the mic hears any different.
 
RaceU4her said:
well i can do it really fair, ill record a clip with a 57 in the super dead closet, then ill move it to the open hardwood floor room which is gonna sound completely different standing next to it with frequencies bouncing all over the place and we will see if the mic hears any different.
Click to expand...
Evidence and facts are NOT TO BE DISCUSSED!!!! We only deal with non-mathematical theories around here!
 
spawnofthesith said:
My amp sounds different in different venues through my in ears. Sometimes dramatically. Although I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong and it's in my head or that it has to due with different parts tolerances of different SM57s :idk
Click to expand...


that is a real thing and something ive yet to compare myself which i need to do, ive seen enough demos to know its a thing though. the 4 speakers in our cabs all sound surprisingly different solo'd as well. shit, theres dudes that say a speaker is brighter near the little tab on the cone of a lot of speakers cause that part of the speaker is tighter wound than the other side.
 
RaceU4her said:
well i can do it really fair, ill record a clip with a 57 in the super dead closet, then ill move it to the open hardwood floor room which is gonna sound completely different standing next to it with frequencies bouncing all over the place and we will see if the mic hears any different.
Click to expand...


Raceu4her experiments >>>>>>>> Jim Lill “experiments”
 
Excellent video. Live, I like a cabinet behind me with a monitor mixed in to give me wider coverage and better interaction vs. just a monitor. I have always been confused regarding the “amp in the room” debate. Always seemed contrarian and for the most part aimed at modelers. If “amp in the playing space” is needed I add an amp and cab otherwise I don’t. (ex studio)
 
Question about modelers since I’ve never used one, do they tell you somewhere what kind of room the profile was made in? Like is there a “dead closet” or “open stage” versions?
 
RaceU4her said:
well i can do it really fair, ill record a clip with a 57 in the super dead closet, then ill move it to the open hardwood floor room which is gonna sound completely different standing next to it with frequencies bouncing all over the place and we will see if the mic hears any different.
Click to expand...
I have many many years experience doing exactly this, and yes it can often make quite a difference to your final recording.

You've already loaded the results by using the phrase "completely different" - no-one ever said that, and if that is what you're expecting, then you will be disappointed. But it does make A difference.

These tests have been done before - ISO cabs versus non-ISO cabs... and there are clear differences. Because the rooms and environment you're working in, do matter, even if just a bit.
 
Orvillain said:
I have many many years experience doing exactly this, and yes it can often make quite a difference to your final recording.

You've already loaded the results by using the phrase "completely different" - no-one ever said that, and if that is what you're expecting, then you will be disappointed. But it does make A difference.
Click to expand...


You’re the perfect one to analyze the test then, it’ll be fun
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top