Jim Lill: "In-the-room tone doesn't matter" and he's absolutely right

RaceU4her said:
Question about modelers since I’ve never used one, do they tell you somewhere what kind of room the profile was made in? Like is there a “dead closet” or “open stage” versions?
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It depends on the way the device works. Within the digital realm, there are basically modelers and profilers. With profilers, the room probably does make a difference if mics are used to make the profile, but for modelers like the Axe-Fx, there are no physical microphones used to create its models. Those models start out by emulating the actual circuit and the components in it according to the schematic, and then various sections of the real amp are physically analyzed directly and compared against those same sections within the model, and if there's a difference, the models are adjusted accordingly.
 
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GreatGreen said:
It depends on the way the device works. Within the digital realm, there are basically modelers and profilers. With profilers, the room probably does make a difference if mics are used to make the profile, but for modelers like the Axe-Fx, there are no physical microphones used to create its models. Those models start out by emulating the actual circuit and the components in it according to the schematic, and then various sections of the real amp are physically analyzed directly and compared against those same sections within the model, and if there's a difference, the models are adjusted accordingly.
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No... Most modern modelers use Impulse Responses as cabs, including the Axe-Fx you mentioned. Most IRs are taken by sending an impulse to a cab and capturing it with a microphone in a room.
 
yeky83 said:
No... Most modern modelers use Impulse Responses as cabs, including the Axe-Fx you mentioned. Most IRs are taken by sending an impulse to a cab and capturing it with a microphone in a room.
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No. I was not talking about IR's. I was talking about amp models. Amp models and IR's are often used together, but they are not the same. Mics are not used in the development of amp models, at least not the way Fractal does it. Mics are used to create IR's though, yes.

Also, the phrase "in-the-room" as it's commonly used does not mean "a mic'd sound that happens to be recorded inside a building." In-the-room tone means listening to the guitar sound as it comes straight from the guitar cabinet itself.
 
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GreatGreen said:
No. I was not talking about IR's. I was talking about amp models. Mics are not used to in the development of amp models, at least not the way Fractal does it. Mics are used to create IR's though, yes.

Also, the phrase "in-the-room" as it's commonly used doesn't mean "a mic'd sound that happens to be recorded inside a building." In-the-room tone means you're listening to the guitar sound as it comes straight from the guitar cabinet itself.
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You can profile amps without using mics, too, and have raw amp profiles just like Fractal has raw amp models. But anyone who is playing a Ke.per direct utilizes either a profile captured with a mic, or an IR captured with a mic. And anyone using an AxeFx direct is also going to use an IR captured with a mic.
 
Boudoir Guitar said:
You can profile amps without using mics, too, and have raw amp profiles just like Fractal has raw amp models. But anyone who is playing a Ke.per direct utilizes either a profile captured with a mic, or an IR captured with a mic. And anyone using an AxeFx direct is also going to use an IR captured with a mic.
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You could also use a Kemper with a directly-captured amp profile, or an Axe-Fx with only an amp block in the patch, and send that signal out to a poweramp and real guitar cab for an in-the-room sound. :)
 
paisleywookiee said:
Wait, you're saying the majority of gigs for people do not use mics? Or am I misreading your post? Because I've not been to a gig in ages, that weren't micing the amp, or using a DI.
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I actually was saying that. Around here we just have bars and small clubs so maybe that’s coloring my idea of what everyone experiences but its really rare to get to mic up. Don’t get me wrong I prefer it. The mix is better and the volume under control.
 
eriwebnerr said:
I actually was saying that. Around here we just have bars and small clubs so maybe that’s coloring my idea of what everyone experiences but its really rare to get to mic up. Don’t get me wrong I prefer it. The mix is better and the volume under control.
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Interesting. It's probably been 20 years since I've seen situations like that.
 
Depends on the scene, eh? I've found the presence of a mic in front of my amp to have very little to do with the size of the venue.
 
GreatGreen said:
No. I was not talking about IR's. I was talking about amp models. Amp models and IR's are often used together, but they are not the same. Mics are not used in the development of amp models, at least not the way Fractal does it. Mics are used to create IR's though, yes.
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Then your reply had nothing to do with the question.

@RaceU4her modelers don't really tell you anything about what kind of a room the mic'ed cab modeling has baked in it.
GreatGreen said:
Also, the phrase "in-the-room" as it's commonly used does not mean "a mic'd sound that happens to be recorded inside a building." In-the-room tone means listening to the guitar sound as it comes straight from the guitar cabinet itself.
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Sure. But this also has nothing to do with anything I've said... what's with these replies? :hmm:cop
 
paisleywookiee said:
I don't think you understand what a grifter is.


Wow, you're an angry elf. Must be from the South Pole.
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I know what it is...., and ok, grifter might be a bit of a stretch since I don't know his actual intentions, but his videos are disingenuous at the very least.

This is guy only uses very high end boutique gear on his own work and he is making videos about how things like woods etc don't matter. If you don't see the hypocrisy in that, I don't know what to tell you.

paisleywookiee said:
Wow, you're an angry elf. Must be from the South Pole.
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That kind of reply says more about you than about me.
 
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I’d take his videos more seriously if he concluded the only pickups matter video by showing himself doing his session work on the 2x4 guitar :cop
 
spawnofthesith said:
I’d take his videos more seriously if he concluded the only pickups matter video by showing himself doing his session work on the 2x4 guitar :cop
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yeah exactly. Or at very least on a Squier or something. The guy has more expensive gear taste than most people I know myself included. Which is fine, nothing wrong with it, but then you're doing videos saying it doesn't matter? Oookay.
 
paisleywookiee said:
Interesting. It's probably been 20 years since I've seen situations like that.
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Man I’m kinda jealous. Do you play bigger places typically or just they all have good sound systems? We typically will use the mains just for vocals even if the place is a bit larger. I’m in a reggae 3 piece and classic rock 4 piece. But i guess it really does depend on the venue and what the crowd expects or will tolerate - like thinking bar vs wedding.
I found the challenge with going direct is that it works best when everyone in the band is doing it. But personally I have had great results with detuned cabinets. The sound is huge but the volume os controlled and the dispersion is fantastic. My go to is a 2x10 with an Alnico Gold.
 
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