Is a bit of struggle a good thing?

[metropolis_4]

Especially early on when you’re just starting to play, is it helpful to have to fight through limitations in gear a bit?

I remember a story my mom told me; when she learned to drive, my grandpa made her learn on a big old pickup with a 3 on the tree gear shift that had to be double clutched. He told her “if you can drive this, you’ll be able to drive anything”

When I first learned guitar, all I had was a cheap 20 year old acoustic. It had action over 1/4” high, no cutaway, and the body joined the neck at the 14th fret. It was a BEAST to play! It was so hard to play anything on, it was a constant battle. It had zero sustain so everything that wasn’t perfectly fretted immediately died out. And I wanted to learn rock songs with solos high up so I had to learn to bend my hand over the body to reach the notes.

I struggled for a few years on that thing before I finally got my first electric guitar. I couldn’t believe how easy it was to play! It felt effortless. Ever since, nothing has ever phased me with the design on a guitar. I can easily play any neck shape, any width, any heel joint, any radius.

I feel like those early struggles made me much more flexible and able to adapt to anything. If any of my kids want to learn guitar I think I’ll find a cheap old acoustic with rusty strings half an inch off the fretboard for them to start on!

 

[yeky83]

I think learning something new is going to be a struggle either way. And it probably does add something if you get gear upgrades through your learning journey (RPG-style), but I don't think the setup sucking to begin with adds anything?

I do think learning on the acoustic is the way to go though.

 

[metropolis_4]

I think learning something new is going to be a struggle either way. And it probably does add something if you get gear upgrades through your learning journey (RPG-style), but I don't think the setup sucking to begin with adds anything?

I do think learning on the acoustic is the way to go though.

For me I’ve always felt it did add something. It forced me to work harder, and learn to play cleaner. No short cuts. If I could play it on that guitar, I can play it on anything.

I still pull out that guitar when I’m working on difficult acoustic pieces because I know if I learn the piece on it, then it will seem easy when I switch over to my gigging acoustic.

 

[deepskyone]

My playing improved significantly when I graduated from a shitty Squier to a Prestige Ibanez.
Because I did not have any excuses anymore and there was no doubt whether the instrument or my lack of technique was to blame when something did not work.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

I understand where you are coming from.

Conversely, I have found when I have guitars setup to kind of fight me ....I lose that light touch control..... especially on more modern ergonomic instruments. So now, I shoot for a more modern setup on a vintage, and a more vintage on a modern...and low action on my acoustic instrument...and I usually, and I say this with trepidation, get a pretty nice experience across all my instruments....which is more conducive for encouraging me to play them, and that makes me better.

 

[fetishfrog]

My strong opinion is no, struggling against gear does not help, especially for younger, newer players.

When I was teaching, I watched many many students give up because the guitar they had was basically unplayable, even for me. I saw this so much I convinced the school owner (who also had a repair shop onsite) to do at or below cost setups to guitars for students to make their guitars more playable. It worked.

The whole 'we struggled and it worked' angle is survivorship bias. We never look at the success of those who didn't need to struggle and compare. We of course can't see who dropped out due to gear issues but would have stuck with it if they weren't fighting a crap guitar the whole time.

I had a crap guitar as a kid. It didn't make me a better player at all. It made me deal with tension issues and injury that I still deal with. It made me blind to certain, obvious solutions to problems that, in the before times, I'd try to push through to win that imaginary trophy you'd win by pushing through. It's BS. Don't fall for it.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

As someone first starting out, trying to get strings to make contact with the fretboard enough to get the notes to ring out clearly, not in my experience or opinion.

I've taught many first-timers on sub-$100 guitars and have sat through many sessions of their struggles, only to give them my PRS after a few sessions and relieve a lot of that struggle.

I'm sure learning how to play guitar on bridge cables can build your finger strength and dexterity a lot faster but not being able to play a note will diminish your confidence enough to not want to pick up the instrument in the first place.

 

[yeky83]

For me I’ve always felt it did add something. It forced me to work harder, and learn to play cleaner. No short cuts. If I could play it on that guitar, I can play it on anything.

I still pull out that guitar when I’m working on difficult acoustic pieces because I know if I learn the piece on it, then it will seem easy when I switch over to my gigging acoustic.

A few times I’ve main-ed a badly setup acoustic guitar for fun. And I feel it introduced bad habits like fretting too hard that I had to unlearn again—which wasn’t a huge deal since this is not my profession and it doesn’t take too long, but I don’t think it added much.

But I can see how pulling out that guitar to check that a piece is within your facility would be a useful thing, cool.

 

[fetishfrog]

I'm sure learning how to play guitar on bridge cables can build your finger strength and dexterity a lot faster

I actually believe the exact opposite happens. I think this approach, especially for younger players, teaches bad habits that become hard to break bad habits.

 

[yeky83]

My strong opinion is no, struggling against gear does not help, especially for younger, newer players.

When I was teaching, I watched many many students give up because the guitar they had was basically unplayable, even for me. I saw this so much I convinced the school owner (who also had a repair shop onsite) to do at or below cost setups to guitars for students to make their guitars more playable. It worked.

The whole 'we struggled and it worked' angle is survivorship bias. We never look at the success of those who didn't need to struggle and compare. We of course can't see who dropped out due to gear issues but would have stuck with it if they weren't fighting a crap guitar the whole time.

I had a crap guitar as a kid. It didn't make me a better player at all. It made me deal with tension issues and injury that I still deal with. It made me blind to certain, obvious solutions to problems that, in the before times, I'd try to push through to win that imaginary trophy you'd win by pushing through. It's BS. Don't fall for it.

Oh yeah, I forgot that I've taught guitar classes lol. Yeah, bad setup does not help at all.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'm kinda tired of running 10's on all my guitars

 

[metropolis_4]

My strong opinion is no, struggling against gear does not help, especially for younger, newer players.

When I was teaching, I watched many many students give up because the guitar they had was basically unplayable, even for me. I saw this so much I convinced the school owner (who also had a repair shop onsite) to do at or below cost setups to guitars for students to make their guitars more playable. It worked.

The whole 'we struggled and it worked' angle is survivorship bias. We never look at the success of those who didn't need to struggle and compare. We of course can't see who dropped out due to gear issues but would have stuck with it if they weren't fighting a crap guitar the whole time.

I had a crap guitar as a kid. It didn't make me a better player at all. It made me deal with tension issues and injury that I still deal with. It made me blind to certain, obvious solutions to problems that, in the before times, I'd try to push through to win that imaginary trophy you'd win by pushing through. It's BS. Don't fall for it.

Those people weren’t me. This did work for me, and if I had to do it over again I would do it the exact same way.

It’s not bias, it’s recognizing what worked and benefitted me. That doesn’t mean the opposite didn’t work for others.

There is no rule that says the same approach works for everyone

A few times I’ve main-ed a badly setup acoustic guitar for fun. And I feel it introduced bad habits like fretting too hard that I had to unlearn again—which wasn’t a huge deal since this is not my profession and it doesn’t take too long, but I don’t think it added much.

But I can see how pulling out that guitar to check that a piece is within your facility would be a useful thing, cool.

I didn’t say it was to see if I’m capable of playing the piece.

 

[yeky83]

I'm kinda tired of running 10's on all my guitars

I wanna try these

 

[yeky83]

I didn’t say it was to see if I’m capable of playing the piece.

That's not what I said you said? Dunno mang, OK.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

Skinny Top Heavy Bottom man here!!

 

[metropolis_4]

As for performing that’s a completely different story.

Usually I want the guitar to get out of the way and not be noticed.

But if I’m playing something with attitude like rock or blues, sometimes I want to be able to fight against it a bit and feel it push back.

But either way, I’m glad I can pick up any guitar and do it without worrying about every spec being exactly what I require

 

[JiveTurkey]

I wanna try these

View attachment 30910

I ran 11s back when I was doing C# Dadthrash. I've had 10's for years beyond that because the trumpets but it would be nice to be able to have the ability to overbend a note at some point

 

[metropolis_4]

That's not what I said you said? Dunno mang, OK.

When you said “ to check that a piece is within your facility” I assumed that’s what you meant?

 

[metropolis_4]

I ran 11s back when I was doing C# Dadthrash. I've had 10's for years beyond that because the trumpets but it would be nice to be able to have the ability to overbend a note at some point

I used 12s in standard tuning for a while

But these days I like the tone of 10s better. I won’t use anything smaller because I have a fear of string breaks during shows

 

[JiveTurkey]

I used 12s in standard tuning for a while

But these days I like the tone of 10s better. I won’t use anything smaller because I have a fear of string breaks during shows

It seems exponentially worse on a strat My V has a bit more 'flex' to it but the strat is tight af.