Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 10,953
That's weird. I'm using two of their bigger Pro models and never had less issues than with those. Will give the Stomp/Tonex combo another try tomorrow (not at home atm).
IK Multimedia TONEX
- Thread starter eggpl@nt
- Start date
That's weird. I'm using two of their bigger Pro models and never had less issues than with those. Will give the Stomp/Tonex combo another try tomorrow (not at home atm).
I only really discovered ToneX because of the current Group Buy and well, I love it. I’ve followed and used NAM quite from the beginning. But having visuals for the amps and the included FX of ToneX motivates me way more it seems.
Now what I don’t completely understand coming from NAM is the gain knob. This isn’t a real parametric model that includes all possible settings of the gain potentiometer, is it?
Can someone tell me more about how (well) the gain knob works?
Now what I don’t completely understand coming from NAM is the gain knob. This isn’t a real parametric model that includes all possible settings of the gain potentiometer, is it?
Can someone tell me more about how (well) the gain knob works?
Mongillo19
Rock Star
- Messages
- 7,060
Boy I wish
I'm not sure what "gain" they use, but it isn't going to be amp specific. Id think of it more like general distortion
It works fine for what it is
Progressive_disclosure
Roadie
- Messages
- 420
Yeah, maybe I should contact thomann about it. They are pretty cheap power supplies but still more than 50 bucks and this one doesn’t seem to be up to snuff. Let me know if you test your a bit!
Chocol8
Shredder
- Messages
- 2,291
The gain knob should really be labeled input level because that is what it does. It changes the level of your signal before it goes through the capture, just like the input trim, but on a per preset basis. So just a clean digital volume control.
But!!! That’s not a bad thing because Tonex captures do a pretty good job of capturing the how the amp responds to different signal levels. The numbers are not necessarily going to match the numbers on the channel volume of a real amp, but it will do the job well, actually better than most amps because you won’t lose treble turning down the virtual gain knob the way you do with a passive volume pot.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 10,953
Which is pretty much exactly what the gain knob does on a plethora of amps.
Chocol8
Shredder
- Messages
- 2,291
Basically except most of them are a little imperfect and change the tone when rolled down too far.
Byrdman
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,667
I was going to try that next. I'll get time tomorrow to add some IR's/Cabs to the preset and turn them on/off. The only reason I'm thinking this may not help is that the tone model sounded great with my acoustic until I turned on a pedal model on my stomp.
The tone model I am using is @Deadpan LRS Acoustic 03 and it has a cab backed in already
Last edited:
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 10,953
Sure. Still, within a certain range, the gain control of the Tonex seems to be working just great for pretty much all of the captures I like. Whether it lacks some authentic aspects is a moot point for me as long as I'm happy.
Progressive_disclosure
Roadie
- Messages
- 420
Really think my ”hairy” clean channel capture I did mainly for my strat works really well with the Gain knob adjusted. It’s becoming a favorite for general clean tones even with humbuckers and boosted.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 10,953
Re: Gain parity between TXO pedal and plugin/app:
According to the Ghost Note Audio "tool", when keeping the input gain of my Moto M2 all the way down, I should add +16dB (using whatever gain blocks, the Tonex input control, etc.) to get the "ideal" (we all should by now know that doesn't exist in Tonex land...) level. This does in fact seem to match the default input gain (+8.5dB) of the pedal. I fooled around with several patches loaded in both incarnations and used a looper sending a splitted signal to them to crosscheck.
As a result, when dialing the input gain of the Tonex pedal back to 0dB (even if that's happeing post-conversion, it seems to work a lot better with many captures), reducing the gain plugin I used in Logic by -8.5dB (hence to 7.5dB), gain parity should still be there, which is what I checked and which is what actually works just fine. There might be some (pretty) small differences between the two, but that's likely got more to do with different input amplification stages between the pedal and the Motu.
So, I already started recording some DIs, boosted them by 7.5dB and loaded them into the plugin's/app's internal player. Any patch I check that way should now work just great in the pedal - already crosschecked and well, yes, it's working perfectly. I'm a happy camper.
According to the Ghost Note Audio "tool", when keeping the input gain of my Moto M2 all the way down, I should add +16dB (using whatever gain blocks, the Tonex input control, etc.) to get the "ideal" (we all should by now know that doesn't exist in Tonex land...) level. This does in fact seem to match the default input gain (+8.5dB) of the pedal. I fooled around with several patches loaded in both incarnations and used a looper sending a splitted signal to them to crosscheck.
As a result, when dialing the input gain of the Tonex pedal back to 0dB (even if that's happeing post-conversion, it seems to work a lot better with many captures), reducing the gain plugin I used in Logic by -8.5dB (hence to 7.5dB), gain parity should still be there, which is what I checked and which is what actually works just fine. There might be some (pretty) small differences between the two, but that's likely got more to do with different input amplification stages between the pedal and the Motu.
So, I already started recording some DIs, boosted them by 7.5dB and loaded them into the plugin's/app's internal player. Any patch I check that way should now work just great in the pedal - already crosschecked and well, yes, it's working perfectly. I'm a happy camper.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 10,953
So, regarding noise, here's two quick recordings (no re-amping, no pre-looping, just guitar straight into things).
Guitar has a Fender Noiseless in neck position (which is what I used). I left a bit of just noise in the beginning for better comparison.
Here's the TXO with a pretty dirty capture running into the HX Stomp, then into the Motu:
And here's the TXO sitting in the loop of the Stomp, same empty patch, loop at unity (set to instrument level in the global settings):
Progressive_disclosure
Roadie
- Messages
- 420
Thanks a bunch, Sascha. Was this with the pedals powered by a Harley Benton or separate PSU’s?
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 10,953
Btw, that internal player with your own DIs is just fantastic when sorting out captures. Sure, could use DIs in the DAW as well, but it's really a lot faster this way as it works within each and every project. I will now record a nice collection featuring all my relevant guitars, pickup positions and playing styles.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 10,953
Oh, sorry, forgot to mention it: Yes, it's all a HB PSU, namely the "Harley Benton PowerPlant ISO-12 Pro" (Stomp powered by a current doubler). I also have a "Harley Benton PowerPlant ISO12AC Pro Modular" on the big board, simultaneously powering a GT-1000, two Tonexes and some dirt pedals. Works just as well.
Last edited:
Progressive_disclosure
Roadie
- Messages
- 420
I’ll mirror your setup as soon as I can and check. The noise is exacerbated if I put the fuzz in front and enable it. When running everything on separate power there was noise with the fuzz but manageable, and the Tonex One took the fuzz pedal really well with my captures.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 10,953
Fwiw, while my current setups are working quite well (with or without the Tonex), it's gotta be said that both the HX Stomp and the TXO are notoriously sensible when it comes to power support and general connections. The Stomp really doesn't like being connected via USB very often (depending on what else is connected), doesn't work as well with all PSUs, the TXO is pretty much similar, just yet a bit worse.
Fortunately, for my two main scenarios (hence running my two live boards), I have found solutions that even work with an amazingly low amount of noise.
Progressive_disclosure
Roadie
- Messages
- 420
T
I’ve already got my fair share of HX Stomp and USB headaches. I want to record via usb from it but right now it’s disconnected and I’m thinking more of routing via my interface instead. I’ve been trying to avoid A/D/A conversions like the plague but now I’ve almost stopped caring about it. I’m just jamming and maybe recording something at home, so should set the bar accordingly.
The upside with the TO is being able to power it from a powerbank via USB if all else fails!
I’ve already got my fair share of HX Stomp and USB headaches. I want to record via usb from it but right now it’s disconnected and I’m thinking more of routing via my interface instead. I’ve been trying to avoid A/D/A conversions like the plague but now I’ve almost stopped caring about it. I’m just jamming and maybe recording something at home, so should set the bar accordingly.
Progressive_disclosure
Roadie
- Messages
- 420
Back on the general topic, I’ve come around on a few select ENGL collection captures actually. Using them on the actual pedal and A/B’ing using correct levels and gain staging against my own captures revealed how easy it is to dismiss stuff in Tonex. If I can I’ll do the same as Sascha and record some level-corrected DI’s, sounds like a really good approach.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
- Messages
- 10,953
Yeah well, similar here. I did record with the HX Floor when I had it, because it allowed me to grab the signal at pretty much any position without making compromises to the signal chain (with the Stomp it's not as easy, sometimes impossible), but I'm really getting annoyed by switching interfaces, so today the Motu is it, one input is usually there for direct plugin usage, the other is fed by external stuff. Easy to deal with, very low latency for plugin usage, etc.
And well, I actually don't notice any significant sound degration anyway. And it's pretty much that what I hear, namely the stuff arriving at the Motu's in, is the same stuff that gets recorded.
