I think the "new" 2022 Celestion Vintage 30 is dead already

@The other John Browne : finally made it through all the V30 related videos you've been putting out for the last months or so (although I cowardly skipped many of the audio clips...).
I am really impressed with how much work you put into it and how you are trying to be neutral (where necessary :cool: ).
I also like your engineer's point of view.
Looking forward on your findings concerning speaker break-in.

I am an engineer, too. I mostly try to stay neutral or even skeptical, when people try to convince me of things, that I simply don't consider to be true, for example "put tube xy in your amp, and you will have way more bass" (apart from the fact that, what many don't know, we have a really short hearing memory, and we wouldn't be able to tell too many differences after a tube swap, but that's another story).

With that said, still, your videos teached me something AGAIN: A few years ago, I had a pair of Marshall G12 Vintage speakers and those two sounded significantly brighter in the upper treble (say 5 .. 6kHz region), than my old 1989 or 1990 blackframe V30 I had at the time, or the Mesa 2x12 cab in our practicing space, or the Harley Benton 4x12 Vintage there.
So my assumption was: the Marshall G12 Vintages ALWAYS sound brighter than standard Celestion V30s.... Unfortunately I have since sold all those speakers, so I can't verify this, or contribute anything more than what I have in my memory.

So obviously I cannot assume things to be true for every single specimen of round piece of paper glued to a voice coil, and that's being exposed to all kinds of environmental influence, when only one or two specimen of round piece of paper exhibits a certain behavior.
 
headcrash said:
@The other John Browne : finally made it through all the V30 related videos you've been putting out for the last months or so (although I cowardly skipped many of the audio clips...).
I am really impressed with how much work you put into it and how you are trying to be neutral (where necessary :cool: ).
I also like your engineer's point of view.
Looking forward on your findings concerning speaker break-in.

I am an engineer, too. I mostly try to stay neutral or even skeptical, when people try to convince me of things, that I simply don't consider to be true, for example "put tube xy in your amp, and you will have way more bass" (apart from the fact that, what many don't know, we have a really short hearing memory, and we wouldn't be able to tell too many differences after a tube swap, but that's another story).

With that said, still, your videos teached me something AGAIN: A few years ago, I had a pair of Marshall G12 Vintage speakers and those two sounded significantly brighter in the upper treble (say 5 .. 6kHz region), than my old 1989 or 1990 blackframe V30 I had at the time, or the Mesa 2x12 cab in our practicing space, or the Harley Benton 4x12 Vintage there.
So my assumption was: the Marshall G12 Vintages ALWAYS sound brighter than standard Celestion V30s.... Unfortunately I have since sold all those speakers, so I can't verify this, or contribute anything more than what I have in my memory.

So obviously I cannot assume things to be true for every single specimen of round piece of paper glued to a voice coil, and that's being exposed to all kinds of environmental influence, when only one or two specimen of round piece of paper exhibits a certain behavior.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much! I am happy you got something out of it and I appreciate your feedback!

I try to be as neutral and open minded as I can be. I guess we get beaten into us as engineers to be sceptical about everything, including our own biases and at least try to consider the possible parameters that could influence a result as well as the statistical relevance of sample sizes. The entire idea to compare UK made and Chinese made V30s snowballed into a ridiculous endeavor once I started to learn about and consider other parameters... but apparently I was too obsessive to turn back and I am glad about that. The level of appreciation I have experienced since publishing my tests has been extremely rewarding.
 
To be open minded actually has helped me in all areas of life :D But especially in guitar gear, I still might be in kind of a process :grin

I was thinking, that maybe (guitar) speakers are particularly prone to aging and/or variances from batch to batch (or even within batches). Thus they maybe particularly prone to tone variances, moreso than any other piece of guitar gear, that comes to my mind (except for tubes...)
What I brought up above with that "round piece of paper", might underline this. Hey, it's paper after all! It may get some treatment (it's mostly black), and often there's some coating on its edge, but like I said above, its possible exposition to moisture, gases, aerosoles, whatever, makes me think, that this is really vulnerable. Which could lead to all kinds of effects, who knows.
 
Any day now... I can almost taste the mass hysteria it's going to cause.
All the speaker vendors are going to register to every forum to damage control their bullshit. :ROFLMAO:
The only thing that J.B's video is going to "break"-in is the internet.
 
James Freeman said:
Any day now... I can almost taste the mass hysteria it's going to cause.
All the speaker vendors are going to register to every forum to damage control their bullshit. :ROFLMAO:
The only thing that J.B's video is going to "break"-in is the internet.
Click to expand...
Well, I can update you a bit. The first speaker has been clobbered for 100 hours now and something appears to have happened to it but I can't make any definitive statement yet as I also noticed a few... I don't want to say issues because that would be a over statement but aspects of my method that can be improved. So I am now starting the break in process for a second speaker which will run 200 if not 300 hours with an improved process/method. At the same time, there are two retailers here in Germany that offer "professional" break in services. I have reached out to both to ask if one can send in speakers to have them broken in and both have said yes. Neither know I am working on this test and neither know I will test them before and after to assess the effect of their break in processes.
In summary, I am confident that I will be able to deliver a comprehensive report for four speakers sometime in December
 
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headcrash said:
To be open minded actually has helped me in all areas of life :D But especially in guitar gear, I still might be in kind of a process :grin

I was thinking, that maybe (guitar) speakers are particularly prone to aging and/or variances from batch to batch (or even within batches). Thus they maybe particularly prone to tone variances, moreso than any other piece of guitar gear, that comes to my mind (except for tubes...)
What I brought up above with that "round piece of paper", might underline this. Hey, it's paper after all! It may get some treatment (it's mostly black), and often there's some coating on its edge, but like I said above, its possible exposition to moisture, gases, aerosoles, whatever, makes me think, that this is really vulnerable. Which could lead to all kinds of effects, who knows.
Click to expand...
You just crashed my head!
The answer’s to all the weirdo bullcrap are in
your post.
Most heads have never REALLY taken a serious look at their actual speakers,..they’re literally like feather’s connected to a BIG ass magnet.
What’s trippy’ is our ears are a lot like speakers..
our outer ears are like cones..you know what I mean?

What will learn a man wrestling with his speakers?
-play outdoors, play outdoor gigs🎯.

The MAIN f’n issue is:VOLUME & the room.
Look at these f’n guys up in their grandmother’s attic’s with 4X12’s stuffed all up in there bitchin’ about his damn V30’s..
 
It won’t be long before speaker cones become translucent..like little hologramic radar’s.
Y’all see the ‘smart hearing aids’??
-that sh*t is dope af.

I learned herds from playing outdoors in Florida.
The slight climate changes & pressure of the humidity has the final say in it all.
That nasty spike frequency is your last voice in the steamy-thick mix..
-guitar intonations gone south,
you gotta sorta play sharp at the frets.. ,
the cones get prime at 20 minutes zone..
the humidity has the final impact,
-as the driver’s seat.
You have to get in where you fit in,
-in the mashed-up mix of it all,
-as quick as possible because the “Sog” will take over at somepoint..those v30’s orT75’s??
-saved my nutz up there fellas💯
You can scream all you want..
- it’s the bitch’ of it that bites & get’s heard/hurdt’.

Bass guitar speakers are the most challenging for the Sog..
REMEMBER..-you can’t play pool with a rope🎯
Thud,Thud..thud..thu..th..t…….bump..bump..
bum..bu...b..Crud.Crud..crud..cru..cr….c..🔊🖕🏽
 
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My only first-hand experience with V30s is in my 2001 Mesa OS cab. The remarkable thing about them is that they are not identical sounding across the 4 speakers, but I have yet to find a bad spot, or feel like one speaker is better or worse sounding than the others. The cab has multiple sweetspots. I often wonder if that would have been the case 22 years ago when it was bought (only $599MSRP btw...) or if the years of playing loud has caused the speakers to even out a bit and if manufacturing tolerances become negated overtime.
 

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YES!
That fact that you announce it means there's a juicy controversy, I'm ready.

Spongebob Squarepants Nickelodeon GIF



EDIT:
Please let it be nothing, so people can stop wasting time and paying extra for placebo. :LOL:
 
Baba said:
Maybe it's already been done, but I would LOVE for someone to REALLY document the differences pre and post speaker "break in" (in quotes because I'm not sure I believe in such a thing).

And more importantly than charts and graphs, a real world clip comparison of the phenomena.
Click to expand...
Everybody breaks them in unique to themselves.
Who’s to say?
 
Life Eats Life said:
Everybody breaks them in unique to themselves.
Who’s to say?
Click to expand...
Okay, but the internet tells me that there is a definite difference between "new" and "broken in" speakers, so, if that isn't just human perception, it should be easily charted and graphed.

That's what I want to see. I don't care HOW they are "broken in", I want to see the irrefutable technical evidence. Something tells me that what is happening on a graph, is probably something different than what we are perceiving, and we may not be hearing anything at all. There was a time before the internet that this wasn't discussed at all, by anyone.
 
I recently installed 2 new G12T-75s and mixed them with Marshall G12 Vintage speakers. I think they sound good, so obviously my ears are broken, because everyone knows the T75 sucks. Anyways, there are definitely differences between Vintage/Vintage 30 speakers, and seemingly more variance than other speakers. At least, that is what the videos suggest online.
 
Spaced Out Ace said:
I recently installed 2 new G12T-75s and mixed them with Marshall G12 Vintage speakers. I think they sound good, so obviously my ears are broken, because everyone knows the T75 sucks. Anyways, there are definitely differences between Vintage/Vintage 30 speakers, and seemingly more variance than other speakers. At least, that is what the videos suggest online.
Click to expand...
I don’t think I was aware T75s had a reputation as sucking. My 1960A sounds awesome. I’ve almost always preferred the 1960A over the V30 recto traditional I used to own along side it.

Perhaps I’m just not a V30 guy.
 
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