I Gotta Wonder About Fractal's, er, "Perception"

[Rock Chalk]

No.

How about longer than four hours..........wait...wut?

 

[ian_dissonance]

Have ever had one for longer than a couple days?

Well takes like 6 minutes to figure out the UI on the Helix/QC/TMP/Headrush/Ampero/etc etc etc so who cares?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Well takes like 6 minutes to figure out the UI on the Helix/QC/TMP/Headrush/Ampero/etc etc etc so who cares?

If you can’t put in a few hours to develop a workflow; Fractal isn’t for you. And even then, plenty of people won’t care for it. But if one hasn’t lived with a Fractal unit for at least a week…they can’t really speak that authoritatively on how far on the scale of suboptimal it lies.

 

[Frodebro]

If you can’t put in a few hours to develop a workflow; Fractal isn’t for you. And even then, plenty of people won’t care for it. But if one hasn’t lived with a Fractal unit for at least a week…they can’t really speak that authoritatively on how far on the scale of suboptimal it lies.

It took me only slightly longer to get up and running with my first Fractal (FM3) than it did my Helix, and I didn't memorize the manual beforehand. I did have to reference it here and there, but at no point was it really a problem. I went into it knowing that it was not designed to be an instant gratification experience.

 

[Tanax]

The question is though, if there's a way to make it intuitive and quick to learn WITHOUT having to read a manual, or look at tutorials, or "spend a few hours to develop a workflow", then why are people hell bent on keeping it unintuitive? That makes no sense to me and a totally wild take.

 

[Frodebro]

The question is though, if there's a way to make it intuitive and quick to learn WITHOUT having to read a manual, or look at tutorials, or "spend a few hours to develop a workflow", then why are people hell bent on keeping it unintuitive? That makes no sense to me and a totally wild take.

I only needed to reference the manual once I started moving beyond the basics. Most of the "intuitive, easy to learn" units don't have many features beyond those basics to worry about in the first place.

 

[Tanax]

I only needed to reference the manual once I started moving beyond the basics. Most of the "intuitive, easy to learn" units don't have many features beyond those basics to worry about in the first place.

Yeah but it's not like the features (or the parameters) of Fractal devices are more difficult than other devices, it's just many more.
If you solve the issue of ease of use and intuitiveness, it can work with however many parameters or options Fractal has as well.

 

[Frodebro]

Yeah but it's not like the features (or the parameters) of Fractal devices are more difficult than other devices, it's just many more.
If you solve the issue of ease of use and intuitiveness, it can work with however many parameters or options Fractal has as well.

That's precisely where I'm at now, I have no problem quickly making any changes I need to from the unit itself. I tweak stuff all the time at rehearsals, and it's not a big deal at all.

 

[Tanax]

That's precisely where I'm at now, I have no problem quickly making any changes I need to from the unit itself. I tweak stuff all the time at rehearsals, and it's not a big deal at all.

That's fair. But I guess my question is still why you (or other people) are against having an even easier and more intuitive interface? Easier != dumbed down.

As a software developer myself, I think that EVERYTHING can always be improved, but it seems that "Fractal people" are against anything UI related, citing that "it works fine for them" and that "they have no problems making quick edits". This often leads to them calling people who ask for these improvements stupid or saying things like "Fractal is for professionals".

I must have missed the part where professional tools cannot make interface improvements or make them more intuitive.

 

[Rock Chalk]

The Fractal UI crusade is real.......

 

[Sascha Franck]

How about longer than four hours..........wait...wut?

I had the Axe FX III from a student over at my place for 3-4 days. Admittedly, I stopped bothering with on unit editing pretty quickly and used the editor instead - but that was precisely because the onboard UI was anything but inspiring, to put it carefully. Also, I consider myself sort of experienced in using digital units, I grew up with them when there were no editors, touchscreens or anything, so I can pretty well put UIs in context of my experiences.
Now, would I be able to do on unit edits much, much faster in case I owned one? You bet I would.
Also, could I have spent more time with the onboard UI during these 3-4 days? Defenitely, but there's been no compelling reasons for doing so.
As my testdrive is quite a while ago, it could as well be that in the meantime the onboard UI has seen some huge improvements, but given whatever forum commentary, that doesn't really seem to be the case.

Whatever. in the end, I think I can allow myself to post a "half-informed" statement. So, sure, you might want to take that with a grain of salt. And yet, pretty much everything I thought is confirmed pretty much all the time by rather avid FAS users until this day.

 

[Sascha Franck]

If you can’t put in a few hours to develop a workflow; Fractal isn’t for you. And even then, plenty of people won’t care for it. But if one hasn’t lived with a Fractal unit for at least a week…they can’t really speak that authoritatively on how far on the scale of suboptimal it lies.

Fwiw, I absolutely agree that, in case you're serious about using any complexed digital "platform" (which would also include, say, DAWs, synths, photo editors and what not), you have to dive into some things a bit deeper and make them work for you. And yet, there's very clear and obvious differences between certain devices.

 

[Rock Chalk]

I had the Axe FX III from a student over at my place for 3-4 days. Admittedly, I stopped bothering with on unit editing pretty quickly and used the editor instead - but that was precisely because the onboard UI was anything but inspiring, to put it carefully. Also, I consider myself sort of experienced in using digital units, I grew up with them when there were no editors, touchscreens or anything, so I can pretty well put UIs in context of my experiences.
Now, would I be able to do on unit edits much, much faster in case I owned one? You bet I would.
Also, could I have spent more time with the onboard UI during these 3-4 days? Defenitely, but there's been no compelling reasons for doing so.
As my testdrive is quite a while ago, it could as well be that in the meantime the onboard UI has seen some huge improvements, but given whatever forum commentary, that doesn't really seem to be the case.

Whatever. in the end, I think I can allow myself to post a "half-informed" statement. So, sure, you might want to take that with a grain of salt. And yet, pretty much everything I thought is confirmed pretty much all the time by rather avid FAS users until this day.

The four hour thing was in reference to a certain TV commercial...........

 

[Frodebro]

That's fair. But I guess my question is still why you (or other people) are against having an even easier and more intuitive interface? Easier != dumbed down.

As a software developer myself, I think that EVERYTHING can always be improved, but it seems that "Fractal people" are against anything UI related, citing that "it works fine for them" and that "they have no problems making quick edits". This often leads to them calling people who ask for these improvements stupid or saying things like "Fractal is for professionals".

I must have missed the part where professional tools cannot make interface improvements or make them more intuitive.

I’m not against any UI upgrades at all, but it’s really not something I ever think about. I learned how to use it, I have no problem with it, and I tend to focus my attention on improving myself, not my tools.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I tend to focus my attention on improving myself, not my tools.

I actually think that in quite some cases, these go hand in hand.

 

[mikah912]

That's precisely where I'm at now, I have no problem quickly making any changes I need to from the unit itself. I tweak stuff all the time at rehearsals, and it's not a big deal at all.

I also tweak existing stuff at rehearsals with not a ton of issue, and the performance pages make that fairly easy.

But actually moving blocks on the unit? Or trying to wholesale swap out effects? Or trying to recall a great block library preset you used before?

Good luck. The thing with having such an unlimited playground of possibilities is that, well, you should be able to easily traverse, recall and swap in/out said possibilities.

And the current on-device UI/UX is suboptimal for that. Lots of common sense tweaks have been suggested in the "wish list" forum, and most go ignored.

 

[Frodebro]

I also tweak existing stuff at rehearsals with not a ton of issue, and the performance pages make that fairly easy.

But actually moving blocks on the unit? Or trying to wholesale swap out effects? Or trying to recall a great block library preset you used before?

Good luck. The thing with having such an unlimited playground of possibilities is that, well, you should be able to easily traverse, recall and swap in/out said possibilities.

And the current on-device UI/UX is suboptimal for that.lots of common sense tweaks have been suggested in the "wish list" forum, and most go ignored.

That’s stuff I worry about on my own time, when the band is together for a rehearsal I never go beyond basic amp, delay, and reverb tweaks as necessary. Anything beyond that is wasting everybody else’s time while I’m fiddle-fucking around. If some minor detail isn’t to my liking, I ignore it and focus on why we’re there, which is to work out arrangements, harmonies, and all that stuff. But that’s just me, I cut my teeth with older players a long time ago who would ream me for wasting time like that.

 

[mikah912]

That’s stuff I worry about on my own time, when the band is together for a rehearsal I never go beyond basic amp, delay, and reverb tweaks as necessary. Anything beyond that is wasting everybody else’s time while I’m fiddle-fucking around. If some minor detail isn’t to my liking, I ignore it and focus on why we’re there, which is to work out arrangements, harmonies, and all that stuff. But that’s just me, I cut my teeth with older players a long time ago who would ream me for wasting time like that.

I get it. I'm also held accountable for unnecessary delays, and I keep it to only basic changes.

But just because lots of pro/semipro situations preclude you from making changes in realtime doesn't mean your hardware should stop you from doing that as well.

The very depth and complexity of the Fractal modeling library is precisely what makes the horrid on-unit tweakability so egregious!

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

The question is though, if there's a way to make it intuitive and quick to learn WITHOUT having to read a manual, or look at tutorials, or "spend a few hours to develop a workflow", then why are people hell bent on keeping it unintuitive? That makes no sense to me and a totally wild take.

(1) I don’t think people are hell bent on keeping it the way it is. There are certain aspects people are hell bent in - the grid flexibility, the extensive parameter list, etc., but I don’t think there are tooooo many people that are hell bent on keeping, say, the enter button.

(2). Intuitive doesn’t mean most effective. I haven’t used QC. I have used Helix, Atomic, Kemper, and Fractal quite a bit. Kemper is not terribly intuitive (so many buttons!), but once you figure it out is by far the quickest/easiest on unit UI.
Helix is pretty intuitive (aside from the whole “each processor only serves one lane” but) but I don’t necessarily find it all THAT much faster to use for a lot of stuff - some stuff it is way faster.

Helix’s intuitiveness pays off for folks plugging into it on occasion, using it as the “house rig” at a church or something, etc., but otherwise - for a piece of gear that is likely to be the centerpiece of my rig for years, I’m okay with needing to read a manual; do some thinking regarding how to use/leverage it. There are definitely some things that can be streamlined on Fractal that I’d love to see implemented, but Im way more concerned with making it fast/easy to use for those that use the thing regularly than making it intuitive/easier than software for someone borrowing one from a student for a couple of days.

 

[Frodebro]

(1) I don’t think people are hell bent on keeping it the way it is. There are certain aspects people are hell bent in - the grid flexibility, the extensive parameter list, etc., but I don’t think there are tooooo many people that are hell bent on keeping, say, the enter button.

I’m sure the percentage of people hell bent on keeping it the way it is is pretty close to the percentage that insist that it is unusable as it sits, which combined is still most likely a vastly smaller group than those who are used to it and don’t think all that much about it.