I Gotta Wonder About Fractal's, er, "Perception"

[Alex Kenivel]

I don’t get you guys… you keep busting my balls just because I won’t buy a model yet even though I’ve bought about $4000 worth of acoustic guitars in the last two months it’s not like I don’t buy stuff. It’s just you know one day I feel like doing this the next day I feel like doing that but in the end you guys are busting my balls because I said that needs an updated better interface. I mean I think probably 90% of the people out there that are thinking about a fractal would agree so quit busting my balls.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

 

[Eagle]

My only criticism of Axe 3 is the lack of a fractal "FRFR" power cab with software support to provide a “control “ for flat. Maybe even some dedicated eq curve presets to get an amp like response in the room. All "FRFR" I have tried is lacking.

 

[norminal]

The UI on Fractal devices is a sore spot, and common complaint, and has been for years.

Probably the most common complaint of the entire product line.

 

[Eagle]

Probably the most common complaint of the entire product line.

I honestly don’t see how it could be improved with so many parameters to navigate. It’s very straightforward and intuitive really. What do people want? One big knob with “ more “ written on it ?

 

[Sascha Franck]

I don’t get you guys… you keep busting my balls just because I won’t buy a model yet

No. We're "busting" your balls (I wouldn't describe it as that, though) because you're coming up with whatever weird statements, pretty much proving you don't have much experience with the topic at hand, posting weird links to unrelated stuff and what not.

 

[James Freeman]

"What are those wood things... chairs?"
Gets me every time.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I honestly don’t see how it could be improved with so many parameters to navigate.

Dude...

 

[laxu]

I honestly don’t see how it could be improved with so many parameters to navigate. It’s very straightforward and intuitive really. What do people want? One big knob with “ more “ written on it ?

The number of parameters is absolutely not the issue. If you ignore the Advanced page, the number of parameters is not massively bigger than other modelers on the market.

Notice how Axe-Edit has little issue with any editing? That's because you see the grid at all times, can simply click a block and turn a virtual knob with your mouse. Fast and efficient. A bit annoying to hold your pick in a weird way when you operate the mouse with a guitar on your lap.

Do the same on the onboard UI and you need to do stuff like:

• Enter vs Edit? Most of the time it's Enter..until it isn't.
• Spam Edit to get to the block you want. The order for this is row -> column so it's terrible for any complex presets when it doesn't follow signal chain flow.
• Alternatively cumbersomely click through the grid to find the right block.
• The best case is when you can just hold the knobs under the screen to get to the block you want...but that only works in Home view so if you want to go amp -> reverb then it's a bit more button presses than I'd like. Ideally the holds would work from any view.
• Then page right at least one page because the default view is the list of models in every block.
• Then orient yourself a moment because the new view is different from the previous one. Most views in Axe-Edit are the same row of knobs, whereas onboard UI varies between row, table and list views.
• Then you still need to move your hand away from the nav keys to the cramped knobs underneath the screen or to the big knob to adjust the param. Possibly navigate to the param if you prefer using the big knob.

Before someone brings it up, it's not about live use either. Just using it at home with all the time in the world, you will find the onboard UI just more annoying to operate regularly than it should be. If you like to tinker and experiment, all that is a lot better to do from Axe-Edit. But I'd prefer I was able to do it whether I have a computer available or not.

On modern touch screen UIs, any block is one tap away, and any parameter at most a few pages away. Even on Helix you are able to quickly get to most blocks with the capacitive footswitches. That streamlines the everyday workflow a surprising amount.

"Eh, I'm fine it", some of you will say. I guess this depends on how much you feel an oscilloscope or whatever is fine to use.

A good chunk of the Fractal operation is still the same as the first gen, just with nicer screens. The layout of the front panel is not good, and the core UI concepts haven't evolved over time, there's still features that can only be configured via Axe-Edit.

I just put up with it because it was the most capable, best sounding thing on the market. But a lot of the competition is nipping at its heels nowadays so it's no longer a clear "Fractal and everything else".

I'm hoping they get it right for the next gen, but I've given up on the current one. There's clearly no interest in fixing even low hanging fruit UI issues on the current gen. As good as Fractal sounds, I'd rather use something else that doesn't need to be tied to a computer to be user friendly.

Most of the time it's Strymon pedals and BluGuitar through real cabs, for the "no compromises in sound" option. The Hotone is a secondary option that doesn't annoy me regularly and is good enough until something better comes to market. If Neural DSP wasn't such a shitshow for the QC development, I'd probably use that.

 

[ejecta]

 

[Rock Chalk]

One thing's for sure.....ol T3 knows how to summon the "Fractal UI Haters Club".......

 

[Eagle]

The number of parameters is absolutely not the issue. If you ignore the Advanced page, the number of parameters is not massively bigger than other modelers on the market.

Notice how Axe-Edit has little issue with any editing? That's because you see the grid at all times, can simply click a block and turn a virtual knob with your mouse. Fast and efficient. A bit annoying to hold your pick in a weird way when you operate the mouse with a guitar on your lap.

Do the same on the onboard UI and you need to do stuff like:

• Enter vs Edit? Most of the time it's Enter..until it isn't.
• Spam Edit to get to the block you want. The order for this is row -> column so it's terrible for any complex presets when it doesn't follow signal chain flow.
• Alternatively cumbersomely click through the grid to find the right block.
• The best case is when you can just hold the knobs under the screen to get to the block you want...but that only works in Home view so if you want to go amp -> reverb then it's a bit more button presses than I'd like. Ideally the holds would work from any view.
• Then page right at least one page because the default view is the list of models in every block.
• Then orient yourself a moment because the new view is different from the previous one. Most views in Axe-Edit are the same row of knobs, whereas onboard UI varies between row, table and list views.
• Then you still need to move your hand away from the nav keys to the cramped knobs underneath the screen or to the big knob to adjust the param. Possibly navigate to the param if you prefer using the big knob.

Before someone brings it up, it's not about live use either. Just using it at home with all the time in the world, you will find the onboard UI just more annoying to operate regularly than it should be. If you like to tinker and experiment, all that is a lot better to do from Axe-Edit. But I'd prefer I was able to do it whether I have a computer available or not.

On modern touch screen UIs, any block is one tap away, and any parameter at most a few pages away. Even on Helix you are able to quickly get to most blocks with the capacitive footswitches. That streamlines the everyday workflow a surprising amount.

"Eh, I'm fine it", some of you will say. I guess this depends on how much you feel an oscilloscope or whatever is fine to use.

A good chunk of the Fractal operation is still the same as the first gen, just with nicer screens. The layout of the front panel is not good, and the core UI concepts haven't evolved over time, there's still features that can only be configured via Axe-Edit.

I just put up with it because it was the most capable, best sounding thing on the market. But a lot of the competition is nipping at its heels nowadays so it's no longer a clear "Fractal and everything else".

I'm hoping they get it right for the next gen, but I've given up on the current one. There's clearly no interest in fixing even low hanging fruit UI issues on the current gen. As good as Fractal sounds, I'd rather use something else that doesn't need to be tied to a computer to be user friendly.

Most of the time it's Strymon pedals and BluGuitar through real cabs, for the "no compromises in sound" option. The Hotone is a secondary option that doesn't annoy me regularly and is good enough until something better comes to market. If Neural DSP wasn't such a shitshow for the QC development, I'd probably use that.

It’s still incredibly easy to navigate to whatever you need to get done.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

The number of parameters is absolutely not the issue. If you ignore the Advanced page, the number of parameters is not massively bigger than other modelers on the market.

Notice how Axe-Edit has little issue with any editing? That's because you see the grid at all times, can simply click a block and turn a virtual knob with your mouse. Fast and efficient. A bit annoying to hold your pick in a weird way when you operate the mouse with a guitar on your lap.

Do the same on the onboard UI and you need to do stuff like:

• Enter vs Edit? Most of the time it's Enter..until it isn't.
• Spam Edit to get to the block you want. The order for this is row -> column so it's terrible for any complex presets when it doesn't follow signal chain flow.
• Alternatively cumbersomely click through the grid to find the right block.
• The best case is when you can just hold the knobs under the screen to get to the block you want...but that only works in Home view so if you want to go amp -> reverb then it's a bit more button presses than I'd like. Ideally the holds would work from any view.
• Then page right at least one page because the default view is the list of models in every block.
• Then orient yourself a moment because the new view is different from the previous one. Most views in Axe-Edit are the same row of knobs, whereas onboard UI varies between row, table and list views.
• Then you still need to move your hand away from the nav keys to the cramped knobs underneath the screen or to the big knob to adjust the param. Possibly navigate to the param if you prefer using the big knob.

Before someone brings it up, it's not about live use either. Just using it at home with all the time in the world, you will find the onboard UI just more annoying to operate regularly than it should be. If you like to tinker and experiment, all that is a lot better to do from Axe-Edit. But I'd prefer I was able to do it whether I have a computer available or not.

On modern touch screen UIs, any block is one tap away, and any parameter at most a few pages away. Even on Helix you are able to quickly get to most blocks with the capacitive footswitches. That streamlines the everyday workflow a surprising amount.

"Eh, I'm fine it", some of you will say. I guess this depends on how much you feel an oscilloscope or whatever is fine to use.

A good chunk of the Fractal operation is still the same as the first gen, just with nicer screens. The layout of the front panel is not good, and the core UI concepts haven't evolved over time, there's still features that can only be configured via Axe-Edit.

I just put up with it because it was the most capable, best sounding thing on the market. But a lot of the competition is nipping at its heels nowadays so it's no longer a clear "Fractal and everything else".

I'm hoping they get it right for the next gen, but I've given up on the current one. There's clearly no interest in fixing even low hanging fruit UI issues on the current gen. As good as Fractal sounds, I'd rather use something else that doesn't need to be tied to a computer to be user friendly.

Most of the time it's Strymon pedals and BluGuitar through real cabs, for the "no compromises in sound" option. The Hotone is a secondary option that doesn't annoy me regularly and is good enough until something better comes to market. If Neural DSP wasn't such a shitshow for the QC development, I'd probably use that.

“Spam edit” is nothing more than “keep nudging the joystick right” or “clicking on the right arrow button” or “rotating the navigation encoder with care”. It’s mildly annoying to not see the grid, but unless you’re going to have a massive upgrade to screen size, it’s going to be tough to not require some action to toggle between grid and parameter page.

Can it be improved? Of course. But none of this is going to be wildly transformative. At the end of the day, Fractal all-in-one units are always going to be squarely in the “do the ends justify the means?” Products.

 

[deadpool_25]

I honestly don’t see how it could be improved with so many parameters to navigate. It’s very straightforward and intuitive really. What do people want? One big knob with “ more “ written on it ?

The VP4 is a big step in the right direction. I suspect it will eventually be viewed as the first product in gen IV. I still think a touch screen would be beneficial because tapping and swiping has become so intuitive these days, but I'm certainly not holding my breath on that lol

 

[DrewJD82]

 

[laxu]

The VP4 is a big step in the right direction. I suspect it will eventually be viewed as the first product in gen IV. I still think a touch screen would be beneficial because tapping and swiping has become so intuitive these days, but I'm certainly not holding my breath on that lol

VP4 replicates the worst bits about the Fractal layout grid, just less annoying because there's only 4 blocks in one dimension.

Enter, edit block, Exit, scroll, Enter, edit block, Exit, scroll...I hated that on past Fractal products already when it was necessary because there was no "go back a block" feature on older firmwares.

I think it could really use the "Edit spam" feature to just move between what block you are editing. That would make moving between fx blocks very quick, make doing quick edits fast because you don't have to carefully scroll with the knob etc.

I just can't view it as a next gen product for Fractal.

 

[deadpool_25]

It's significantly smoother sailing to edit on the unit than it is on the other units. That's a step in the right direction imo. I'm guessing it's the beginning of Cliff and co exploring ways to address the UI concerns, and isn't its Final Form. But we'll see!

 

[JasonE]

The VP4 is a big step in the right direction. I suspect it will eventually be viewed as the first product in gen IV. I still think a touch screen would be beneficial because tapping and swiping has become so intuitive these days, but I'm certainly not holding my breath on that lol

I think a touch screen works well for an in home use scenario. I for one would never want a touch screen on a unit that I have on the floor at a gig, especially in a bar where drinks get spilled. Pete Thorn told a story about his quad cortex freaking out when he spilled a little water on the display. The beads of water made the unit think someone was touching it with multiple fingers and started freaking out. For me, a touch screen isn't the right answer for a live play situation.

 

[KingsXJJ]

We love ya’ man! Your legendary.

 

[Sascha Franck]

It’s still incredibly easy to navigate to whatever you need to get done.

I said so multiple times, regarding various UI issues: It's not about things being easy, it's about being able to do things quickly. Just as on those superior analog amps that you love so much.