Help me out here: great out front, horrible on the monitors

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GuitarBilly74

Roadie
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747
Title says it. I've been using a DI rig (Friedman IR-D) for shows lately and it always sounds great out front. BUT I'm having a miserable time with my sound on the wedges. It's always a problem and keeps me from fully enjoying the shows.
What do I need? IEM? "FRFR"? I don't want to have to carry a lot of shit or I might as well just bring an amp.


And yeah, I know the IR-D is not a modeler but I figured the modeling guys know more about DI monitoring so.... posting it here :D
 
i know im not helping really- but whatd you say is the nature if the horrible monitor sound? is it lack of depth, too much treble? what im wondering is if its just soundguys eqing too much vocal sound back at you- which theyd likely set up for clarity over flatness.. especially given proximity effect on mics.

um wondering if old school lazy sound guys are just jammin you up cause theyve got you set for set it and forget it on monitors. id bet a good half of em dont touch eq on monitors just trying not to blow drivers.
 
I feel your pain!
Even back then, before digital and things like yours, I always asked the sound guy to turn my guitar all the way down in my wedge.

I always bring my own cab to avoid this issue and I prefer a guitar cab for personal monitoring: I bring my 2x12 and a class D power amp if play full digital with the helix.

You might find an "FRFR" o wedge that works for you and bring that one, but is a bit of trial and error - and you might not like it anyway.

I spent a few of years using an "FRFR" (Powercab 212) and with IRs was pretty good but in the end a real cab is what makes me enjoy the show the most.

Since bringing more stuff basically undermines the logistics convenience of a compact rig, I ended up going back using a tube amp + cab and I send an IR to the FOH using a two notes cab m+.
 
newholland said:
i know im not helping really- but whatd you say is the nature if the horrible monitor sound? is it lack of depth, too much treble? what im wondering is if its just soundguys eqing too much vocal sound back at you- which theyd likely set up for clarity over flatness.. especially given proximity effect on mics

um wondering if old school lazy sound guys are just jammin you up cause theyve got you set for set it and forget it on monitors. id bet a good half of em dont touch eq on monitors just trying not to blow drivers
Click to expand...

I'm 100% sure it is a sound guy problem, more so than the gear, but the reality is we have to work with the sound guys, we can't afford to have our own crew. So what do I do?
(Aside from carrying my amp of course)
 
HotRats said:
I feel your pain!
Even back then, before digital and things like yours, I always asked the sound guy to turn my guitar all the way down in my wedge.

I always bring my own cab to avoid this issue and I prefer a guitar cab for personal monitoring: I bring my 2x12 and a class D power amp if play full digital with the helix.

You might find an ""FRFR"" o wedge that works for you and bring that one, but is a bit of trial and error - and you might not like it anyway.

I spent a few of years using an ""FRFR"" (Powercab 212) and with IRs was pretty good but in the end a real cab is what makes me enjoy the show the most.

Since bringing more stuff basically undermines the logistics convenience of a compact rig, I ended up going back using a tube amp + cab and I send an IR to the FOH using a two notes cab m+.
Click to expand...
You're probably right and that's most likely the route I'm going to go, I have plenty of amps here so that's the easiest solution. But I've really been trying to get into this DI thing.
 
GuitarBilly74 said:
I'm 100% sure it is a sound guy problem, more so than the gear, but the reality is we have to work with the sound guys, we can't afford to have our own crew. So what do I do?
(Aside from carrying my amp of course)
Click to expand...

oh man, no absolutely!

my comment is less about maligning soundguys than bringing up their 'gimmes'. we ALL make things easier for our daily shit! its more just knowing when to ask if they can give ya a dedicated monitor set flat if they CAN- but im hardly tellin you something.you dont know ! i mean... some places will just have ONE mix on the floor, so youre probably outa luck in that instance... but other than asking for your own monitor OR... basically using an amp type rig... i dunno if its fixable!

maybe its time for a primary out for FOH and a secondary out on modeler rigs to go to monitors with its own eq. :idea:
 
I usually take a separate monitor or cab that's outside the malign reach of the soundboard. Sometimes everything is great and, I leave it switched off. Nearly every time I didn't bring one, though, it was a case of instant regret.
 
I see 3 options:
  1. Bring a small, light amplification device you can trust. Could be a compact 10-12 inch full range wedge you’ve dialed your sound in on. Small and light. RCF HD-10A could be an option. Otherwise in ears could be ok. Fx return on their back line might give you enough guitar loudspeaker vibe to be tolerable as well.
  2. If you can load multiple sets of IRs, some for dark rooms, bright rooms, etc but that’s obviously going to impact your FOH tones as well.
  3. Live with it.
I know this pain though. I’ve played direct with my Helix in a number of venues and sometimes the monitoring takes your face off.

JiveTurkey said:
It would be carrying something but the Fender FR is like 20lbs. EVH might be a good experiment for you for when you are running your direct rig?
Click to expand...
The FR was going to be my suggestion. The reality of DI is you are almost entirely dependent on the sound guy at that point.
 
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I never run guitar only through Wedges. Not even my own. I get that it's brutal and sucks the joy/love
out of playing. Because it does! :hmm

Probably did it a few times and was like, "WTF is this?" and then found work arounds---even
if it involved me bringing more gear.

On bigger stages I used to bring additional amps/cabs for some selfish sidefilling to make it
more pleasant. :idk
 
la szum said:
I never run guitar only through Wedges. Not even my own. I get that it's brutal and sucks the joy/love
out of playing. Because it does! :hmm

Probably did it a few times and was like, "WTF is this?" and then found work arounds---even
if it involved me bringing more gear.

On bigger stages I used to bring additional amps/cabs for some selfish sidefilling to make it
more pleasant. :idk
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100%. If I have my amp, I always ask to keep my guitar out of the monitors.
Unfortunately when going direct that's not an option unless I get a "FRFR"
 
GuitarBilly74 said:
I agree with you 100%. If I have my amp, I always ask to keep my guitar out of the monitors.
Unfortunately when going direct that's not an option unless I get a ""FRFR""
Click to expand...

Netflix Reality GIF by The Circle Netflix (US)






:LOL:


For me, pretty sure tweeters are the problem. Tweeters and great rock guitar tones are maybe
mutually exclusive, on a stage anyways. :idk

Sounds like you are screwed!! :hugitout

Judicious Hi-Cuts on the Feed to the "FRFR" can be very effective, though. Not having those Cuts
is not something I would personally be into. I feel like they are necessary if Private Tweeter is
on the job behind me, or in my freaking face! :LOL:


Good luck! :beer
 
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