Helix Talk

I’m still have to read what each knob or slider is controlling whether it’s a picture of an amp/pedal or not. I don’t hear with my eyes.
 
ian_dissonance said:
I’m still have to read what each knob or slider is controlling whether it’s a picture of an amp/pedal or not. I don’t hear with my eyes.
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for better or for worse, the experience of dialling in real amps is so different.

Quick case in point, I bought an ENGL E530 which arrived today. I've used plugin emulations on and off for YEARS, but using the real deal has me dialling it in totally different to how I did on the software. I've had this same thing with several amps, when turning knobs and listening, for whatever reason, it feels more normal to turn things to extremes.
IMG_4737.jpeg


I’ve never dialled in any ENGL emulation like that, as far as I remember. In HW, that sort of thing just feels natural.


I have the same thing with hardware synths vs plugins. As soon as you stop to think what you're doing, it affects how you dial it in. I obviously am aware of this influence and try to counter it but it’s something that is always in the back of your mind when dialing emulations in that doesn't exist with the real gear. With modelling getting better and better, it’s very important for emulations to capture the feel and experience of using the gear too.

I get the counter argument to this but hear me out - an ideal emulation would lead me to using the gear in a way that would lead to the same results as using the HW. Of course its an advantage to land on other things and go in other directions, but if we are talking about emulation by its core definition, then I think capturing the experience of using the gear matters. If the end result is about going elsewhere, then I'd be happy with using Boss style general models and just seeing where you go.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
for better or for worse, the experience of dialling in real amps is so different.

Quick case in point, I bought an ENGL E530 which arrived today. I've used plugin emulations on and off for YEARS, but using the real deal has me dialling it in totally different to how I did on the software. I've had this same thing with several amps, when turning knobs and listening, for whatever reason, it feels more normal to turn things to extremes.
View attachment 11875

I’ve never dialled in any ENGL emulation like that, as far as I remember. In HW, that sort of thing just feels natural.


I have the same thing with hardware synths vs plugins. As soon as you stop to think what you're doing, it affects how you dial it in. I obviously am aware of this influence and try to counter it but it’s something that is always in the back of your mind when dialing emulations in that doesn't exist with the real gear. With modelling getting better and better, it’s very important for emulations to capture the feel and experience of using the gear too.

I get the counter argument to this but hear me out - an ideal emulation would lead me to using the gear in a way that would lead to the same results as using the HW. Of course its an advantage to land on other things and go in other directions, but if we are talking about emulation by its core definition, then I think capturing the experience of using the gear matters. If the end result is about going elsewhere, then I'd be happy with using Boss style general models and just seeing where you go.
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It’s different for everyone I suppose. I don’t think about the numbers, I just push things around until it sounds right. Doesn’t matter to me if it’s an amp/cab or sliders on an editor. I’ve owned a few amps multiple times over the years and each iteration got dialed in a little differently, whether due to build tolerances or changing taste on my part.
 
HotRats said:
Might be, they proved to be really good in designing UIs. Helix floor/rack UI is killer.

But I still don't see an advantage in seeing the model image vs an icon. I actually see a lot of disadvantages.

One for all is how much easier is to see parameter/values in a clear well designed and standardized UI compared to hundreds of different small hardware layouts.

Things are different for plugins. I'm all for skeuokophormic for mixing music.

But on stage form 2mt distance?
No thank you.

You can of course have both but I don't see the point honestly.
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Watching professional musicians and producers interact with their gear—Line 6 or otherwise—has been truly eye-opening for us. I don't mean watching on YouTube; I mean sitting down and having them walk us through their workflow (yes, I'm gonna keep using that term. Deal with it.). And if they say "oh, you should do this," we never take it at face value. It's not about requested solutions; it's always about digging until we understand the problem to be solved.

My old business partner was a ProTools engineer for The Underdogs (writing camp who produced songs for Michael Jackson [oh jeez the STORIES], Justin, Britney, Christina, Brandy, Monica, etc.). The amount of effort he took to learn key commands and shortcuts to be able to track, comp, edit, and tune at the speed of thought was insane. He was literally faster than the screen redraws and had to lift his hands up every 20 seconds or so to let the Macs catch up. (This was in the early 00s.) The one thing I learned is that if something takes X seconds to accomplish, there's a notably lower chance a user will bother compared to something that takes half the time. If instead of "okay, so I tap this and open this and swipe here and do this" you think "okay, now it's done," you're constantly in a state of DO activity instead of incessantly cycling through WHAT > HOW > DO. Muscle memory is king.

That's why I love Logic on a Mac (with Kensington rollerball and scripting) and loathe GarageBand on the iPad. The latter is super pretty and easy to discover but damn is it slow to get around. On the iPad, my music is always worse not because of limited options but because I stop bothering way sooner. The trick is to make it so nothing's a bother, but there will always be a bit of a learning curve to get to that point, if only to learn the shortcuts.

IMO, the home screen should tell you everything you need to know at a glance. Nothing wrong with pretty pictures, but never at the expense of usability. Also, if you're focusing on the home screen (signal flow=engineer side of your brain), you're shifting from the musician/artist/creative side of your brain.
 
yeky83 said:
Puss In Boots Please GIF by Laff
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I'll tell a positive one.

Michael Jackson had a photographic memory when it came to his vocal takes.

They were in the studio working on vocals and Michael wasn't happy with any of his performances. They had been working on this track for while. Michael said "Hey Harvey (Mason Jr., son of the 4 Play drummer), last Wednesday, around 1:20pm or so, I believe it was take 26... Could you pull that up?" Within minutes they had found the file, pulled it into the session, and it was perfect. Ended up being the finished take for that song.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
I love that this implies others exist.
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All of the stories took place in the studio, so I can't comment on any other... stuff.

This one wasn't from the Underdogs: My sister had an internship at Sony Records in London and was invited to the Michael Jackson's Invincible industry listening party a month before the record came out. She emailed me "Holy hell! The new MJ record is amazing! Just one floor-filler massive hit after another. Best thing he's done since Thriller—this record is going to slay!"

Weeks later, Invincible was released and it was very different from what my sister heard. Nearly all of the massive floor-filler hits (mostly Neptunes and Timbaland productions, but one or two from the Underdogs) had been replaced with cheeseball "the children are our future" schlock ballads. I guess Michael got cold feet at the end and picked a different track listing from the 80+ (!) songs fully produced and mixed for that record.

Can't confirm it, but rumors are that Justin Timberlake ended up with a few of those songs for Justified and FutureSex/Love Sounds, which makes perfect sense, as they both sound a lot like Michael Jackson albums.
 
Digital Igloo said:
Watching professional musicians and producers interact with their gear—Line 6 or otherwise—has been truly eye-opening for us. I don't mean watching on YouTube; I mean sitting down and having them walk us through their workflow (yes, I'm gonna keep using that term. Deal with it.). And if they say "oh, you should do this," we never take it at face value. It's not about requested solutions; it's always about digging until we understand the problem to be solved.
Click to expand...
This was how it was making REAPER with Justin. I would insist that it had to have this certain feature and really dig my heels in, then. he would watch how I actually worked and what my desired end goal was and build for that instead....My desired features were just intermediate steps and often about as helpful as a multi level marketing middleman to the actual end goal. Having someone who really sees the end product instead of all the traditional in between steps made all the difference in the world
 
Digital Igloo said:
Watching professional musicians and producers interact with their gear—Line 6 or otherwise—has been truly eye-opening for us. I don't mean watching on YouTube; I mean sitting down and having them walk us through their workflow (yes, I'm gonna keep using that term. Deal with it.). And if they say "oh, you should do this," we never take it at face value. It's not about requested solutions; it's always about digging until we understand the problem to be solved.

My old business partner was a ProTools engineer for The Underdogs (writing camp who produced songs for Michael Jackson [oh jeez the STORIES], Justin, Britney, Christina, Brandy, Monica, etc.). The amount of effort he took to learn key commands and shortcuts to be able to track, comp, edit, and tune at the speed of thought was insane. He was literally faster than the screen redraws and had to lift his hands up every 20 seconds or so to let the Macs catch up. (This was in the early 00s.) The one thing I learned is that if something takes X seconds to accomplish, there's a notably lower chance a user will bother compared to something that takes half the time. If instead of "okay, so I tap this and open this and swipe here and do this" you think "okay, now it's done," you're constantly in a state of DO activity instead of incessantly cycling through WHAT > HOW > DO. Muscle memory is king.

That's why I love Logic on a Mac (with Kensington rollerball and scripting) and loathe GarageBand on the iPad. The latter is super pretty and easy to discover but damn is it slow to get around. On the iPad, my music is always worse not because of limited options but because I stop bothering way sooner. The trick is to make it so nothing's a bother, but there will always be a bit of a learning curve to get to that point, if only to learn the shortcuts.

IMO, the home screen should tell you everything you need to know at a glance. Nothing wrong with pretty pictures, but never at the expense of usability. Also, if you're focusing on the home screen (signal flow=engineer side of your brain), you're shifting from the musician/artist/creative side of your brain.
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Being a professional mixing engineer myself and working every day in front of protools a control surface and a controller app I'm all for usability.

I mix mostly for television therefore efficiency and a smooth workflow are critical for me. I need to squeeze everything I can from the tools I have because delivery times are always tight.

Every action that requires more time than a shorcut or a mouse click is basically an action that takes too long and you don't want to take too long hundred times a day.

Every control surface that can't give a clear and immediate visual feedback of what's going on or require too many button strokes (and often 2 is already too much) to take action will fail against a mouse or a shortcut.
(Actions that require more than one hand end up failing against a mouse, in my experience, because often one hand is already doing something like riding a fader)

That's where basically all "cheap" daw controllers fail miserably and end up being used only for their faders and nothing more.

Helix UI is great because never fail in two key areas: speed and visual feedback. You've really done a great work there. You see what you need to see and can take action immediately or pushing a button.

Helix UI experience remind me the one you have using an avid s6 control surface, where everything is basically there in front of you.

Efficiency and speed are not all that matter, though.
Tools should be "transparent" making your life easier and fun, letting you focus on what is really important and not the tool itself.
 
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Digital Igloo said:
loathe GarageBand on the iPad. The latter is super pretty and easy to discover but damn is it slow to get around
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Same. And it’s even worse on the iPhone, despite having the potential of being quite capable. Why on god’s green earth do we need that huge useless mic settings panel covering 90% of the waveform view when recording? And the slow animations… oh god the animations… :wat

Please never let Line 6 do any of that stuff!
 
Digital Igloo said:
They were in the studio working on vocals and Michael wasn't happy with any of his performances. They had been working on this track for while. Michael said "Hey Harvey (Mason Jr., son of the 4 Play drummer), last Wednesday, around 1:20pm or so, I believe it was take 26... Could you pull that up?" Within minutes they had found the file, pulled it into the session, and it was perfect. Ended up being the finished take for that song.
Click to expand...

I love these stories.

Michael Beinhorn, who produced Soundgarden's Superunknown, told how every time he needed to double Chris Cornell's voice, all he had to do was to pick a take from a day or two before, and punch it in. No vocals were ever dubbed by Cornell himself.

His performances were so tight and consistent, he was basically repeating himself day after day.
 
Why the amp models still output sound with Gain and/or Master on 0.0? :unsure:
Please don't say to prevent some fool form panicking.
 
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