Helix Talk

[James Freeman]

Anyone seeing snapshot bypass states changing when saving toi helix native then back to hardware?

I can check.
Do you mean when exporting a .hlx file from Native then importing into HX Edit?

EDIT:
Okay so yes, when moving a preset from HX Edit and you have "Bypass/Controller Assign" that are assigned to Footswitches/Exp/Variax they are removed when you import to Helix Native.
In Helix Native the "Bypass/Controller Assign" functions are replaced with "Automation/Controller Assign" functions that are sent form your DAW via the Automation commands, so the presets are not fully interchangeable.

I don't know if HX presets should carry Native data and vice-versa?

EDIT2:
"Snapshot Bypass" is preserved back and forth, so if that was your question, it's working correctly here.

 

[pablo retamal]

jubilee!

 

[GTR37]

pretty sure the lead channel has diode clipping (between 3rd and 4th stages) but not the rhythm channel.

I like the quirkiness of the Jubilee tonestack, but it sort of lends itself to dialling in some bad tones if you aren’t careful. Haven’t used a Wizard before but MCII and MTL look plate driven too. I usually find myself cranking plate driven EQ’s higher than cathode follower ones, I usually set them way different to a 2203 style amp

That’s correct
It’s a plate driven tonestack same as the Cornford , Hiwatt, Splawn
Engl
So it’s a bit dryer, stiffer is feel
The classic Brit Cathode follower design really adds a nice compression and a bit more saturation

 

[pipelineaudio]

I can check.
Do you mean when exporting a .hlx file from Native then importing into HX Edit?

EDIT:
Okay so yes, when moving a preset from HX Edit and you have "Bypass/Controller Assign" that are assigned to Footswitches/Exp/Variax they are removed when you import to Helix Native.
In Helix Native the "Bypass/Controller Assign" functions are replaced with "Automation/Controller Assign" functions that are sent form your DAW via the Automation commands, so the presets are not fully interchangeable.

Looks like exactly what's happening

I don't know if HX presets should carry Native data and vice-versa?

They should unless they want presets to be totally broken when going back to hardware. I do my level setting in Native then send it back to Floor for instance

@Digital Igloo any opinions here?

 

[Sascha Franck]

I don't know if HX presets should carry Native data and vice-versa?

IMO yes. And I actually think it'd be a good idea to get rid of HX Edit entirely but have an extended view mode on HX Native once some HX hardware is connected. I'd also like to see all switches emulated, that way I could actually check my live patches in HX Native (which is completely impossible right now, quite a shame).
And well, in an ideal world, the switches could be MIDI learned, so the plugin would behave pretty much identical to the hardware with a proper MIDI controller connected.
In an even more ideal world, it'd be possible to automatically sync everything I'm doing on the hardware and what's happening in the plugin. From all I remember, the Access Virus had a comparable mode (no wonder as it's coming from the same genius mind that developed the KPA).

Quite obviously, all this should be optional and the initial syncing process (from HW to plugin or vice versa) should be selectable to avoid any accidental "repatching".

 

[EOengineer]

You'll quickly notice why 99% of Mark IV players prefer the Presence Pulled for the original IIC+/III response.



PS.
I love my Helix, but sometimes it pains me to know that a model could have been much better if Line 6 made a different decision regarding settings when modeling the amp.

James, are you saying that NOT pulling the treble on a Mark IV is making the amp respond LESS like a Mark III? If so, is that difference with the Mark III treble pushed or pulled? Or the lead bright engaged?

I can’t speak for the IV, but I ALWAYS use the treble pushed and lead bright pulled on my Mark III…not sure if the treble pulls work the same across those 2 amps, but the Helix Mark IV is in the ballpark with how I dial my III in, so I’m happy L6 went the direction they did. I use the IV model as my main hi gain crunch tone for silent rehearsals every week and it’s a great approximation of what I get out of my real III.

That said, I do think the Mark IV was a misstep in model choice by L6. I say this as a L6 and Mesa Mark fan. I get why they did it, the 2 C+ is now unobtanium and $6k+ is probably a big ask, but what MANY really want out of a Mark model is the 2C+ or even the III (pre blue stripe for the more traditional mark crunch). It’s a simpler circuit where they could have modeled the pulls and switches and sidestepped the endless knobs and switches of the IV. Do it once, do it right, be done with it. Just my opinion.

 

[pipelineaudio]

IMO yes. And I actually think it'd be a good idea to get rid of HX Edit entirely but have an extended view mode on HX Native once some HX hardware is connected. I'd also like to see all switches emulated, that way I could actually check my live patches in HX Native (which is completely impossible right now, quite a shame).
And well, in an ideal world, the switches could be MIDI learned, so the plugin would behave pretty much identical to the hardware with a proper MIDI controller connected.
In an even more ideal world, it'd be possible to automatically sync everything I'm doing on the hardware and what's happening in the plugin. From all I remember, the Access Virus had a comparable mode (no wonder as it's coming from the same genius mind that developed the KPA).

Quite obviously, all this should be optional and the initial syncing process (from HW to plugin or vice versa) should be selectable to avoid any accidental "repatching".

The sends/returns and routing can be a nightmare on native vs hardware as well

 

[Sascha Franck]

The sends/returns and routing can be a nightmare on native vs hardware as well

Defenitely. Same for the looper.
Obviously, their function can't be recreated in software, but let's at least have placeholders.

 

[Deadpan]

I like the Jubilee and Wizard a lot.

To me they don't sound similar.

The Jubilee has the Marshall's kerang and the Wizard has the HiWatt clarity.

 

[James Freeman]

James, are you saying that NOT pulling the treble on a Mark IV is making the amp respond LESS like a Mark III?

Treble? I don't think I mentioned treble in my post at all.

The Presence Push/Pull control on the Mark IV changes the Negative Feedback and Presence control response of the amp. Presence Push/Pull doesn't exist on the Mark IIC+/III only on the IV, if you want the same poweramp response in the IV you need to pull the presence knob. Channel 1 poweramp on Mark IV doesn't have presence push/pull and maintains the classic IIC+/III response according to schematics and you can see that in the graphs I've posted.

I like the Jubilee and Wizard a lot.
To me they don't sound similar.

In my personal opinion;
The bread and butter amps are more important than boutique improvements or mods on them, the Jubilee is closer to the former.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

some nice examples of dialling an Ecstasy in here at 49 minutes. Jason explains about the Ecstasy treble pot being audio taper rather than linear, just before that he shows the influence of the bright caps.

I'm not sure if it got changed to the original behaviour, but I know Fractal altered some controls and tapers of various amps to values they thought better, which is all well and good other than the fact it makes it less like the original to use and you'll land on different results. IMO a correct model should have those design choices, even if they seem a little odd as it influences how you use the gear.

 

[EOengineer]

Treble? I don't think I mentioned treble in my post at all.

Well, apparently I conflated presence with treble. I must have been smoking some great stuff.

 

[mavrick102000]

That’s correct
It’s a plate driven tonestack same as the Cornford , Hiwatt, Splawn
Engl
So it’s a bit dryer, stiffer is feel
The classic Brit Cathode follower design really adds a nice compression and a bit more saturation

If you want Sag/compression on something like a Splawn Quickrod, you need to have Scott add the B+ mod then it'll get the nice squish and compression.

 

[the swede]

I know y'all are speaking of other things. So ill be that guy that just shows up from nowhere and starts to talk when everyone is having a discussion already.

Forgot how good the Litigator sounds..... the things is a pure joy to my telecaster. I mostly used Ventoux since it came along, and its lovely to. But the Litigator... fuck me...

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Anyone want to try my 6L6 Power Amp sim? It's just an Archetype Clean with the tonestack set to flat AF (verified with analyzing the preamp block). There's an FX loop block where I insert my preamp, a split hard panned so one side goes to my power amp and one side gets the power amp sim, IR and out to my monitors. You can delete everything except the amp (poweramp) block, that's where the juice is.

I'm doing this and its sounding pretty close to my amp in the room

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[James Freeman]

@Alex Kenivel I improved a little on that if that's okay.

I could get the Archetype Clean Preamp to be flat to less than ±0.5dB (35Hz-18kHz) with an EQ block after it, better than HiFi systems in the 70s.
Then I replaced the Preamp with Full Amp with the same tone-stack settings, keep the EQ block after the Amp to prevent clipping the front-end.
Raise Drive and Master to control saturation, Master is at 0 as a clean starting point.

Preset:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17VqM3sUE5UaxliKQXaWhI0bTOQYNjAyq

 

[Alex Kenivel]

@Alex Kenivel I improved a little on that if that's okay.

I could get the Archetype Clean Preamp to be flat to less than ±0.5dB (35Hz-18kHz) with an EQ block after it, better than HiFi systems in the 70s.
Then I replaced the Preamp with Full Amp with the same tone-stack settings, keep the EQ block after the Amp to prevent clipping the front-end.
Raise Drive and Master to control saturation, Master is at 0 as a clean starting point.


View attachment 6586

View attachment 6587


Preset:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17VqM3sUE5UaxliKQXaWhI0bTOQYNjAyq

You see folks, this is how you get James to do something for you without asking. Just do it half-assed first!

Im only adverse to extra EQ blocks because I'm using my Stomp. Still gonna check it out!

 

[Rocco Crocco]

Anyone want to try my 6L6 Power Amp sim? It's just an Archetype Clean with the tonestack set to flat AF (verified with analyzing the preamp block). There's an FX loop block where I insert my preamp, a split hard panned so one side goes to my power amp and one side gets the power amp sim, IR and out to my monitors. You can delete everything except the amp (poweramp) block, that's where the juice is.

I'm doing this and its sounding pretty close to my amp in the room

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

I grabbed this block from your dropbox last night. Placed a Line 6 Epic pre in front and .

 

[Elf]

@Alex Kenivel I improved a little on that if that's okay.

I could get the Archetype Clean Preamp to be flat to less than ±0.5dB (35Hz-18kHz) with an EQ block after it, better than HiFi systems in the 70s.
Then I replaced the Preamp with Full Amp with the same tone-stack settings, keep the EQ block after the Amp to prevent clipping the front-end.
Raise Drive and Master to control saturation, Master is at 0 as a clean starting point.


View attachment 6586

View attachment 6587


Preset:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17VqM3sUE5UaxliKQXaWhI0bTOQYNjAyq

This is great! How did you create the red and green curves? Thanks!

 

[James Freeman]

SPAN Plus, 10Hz-22kHz 10 second sine sweep.