Helix Talk

[ian_dissonance]

But it didn't ship due to 1.00 delay until late September/early October.

I don’t count it until December because I preordered from GC and it was important to have them on the floor at certain locations than to fill preorders. Probably the last time I bought anything new from GC that wasn’t a last minute cable replacement, actually.

 

[synthpenguin]

Anyone attempted to get a Benson Chimera / Monarch type sound in the Helix?

I haven’t actually played a Benson, but some guitarists I like use them, and I’ve listened to a lot of demoes and I love the sound, so I’ve been spending time trying to get in the ballpark of them in the Helix.

I looked it up and a lot of people have asked about how to do this (and asked about getting it in the Fractals too), and the typical answer seems to be to use a Tweed Deluxe model… but idk. I can get the basic sound fairly close, but it falls apart with drive pedals, whereas the Bensons seem to take drive pedals really well.

I saw some other people say to combine a different preamp model with the Tweed Deluxe amp model, since apparently the Bensons are 5E3 based but have a different preamp and phase inverter design (I’m guessing for more clean headroom? But idk). One post specifically said to use the Voltage Queen preamp, and I can see how this would work, but I didn’t have much luck really.

I actually got closest with the Park 75. That WorshipTutorials channel sells a Chimera preset for the Helix that uses a tone match IR. I’m not really interested in that (or buying a preset), but they said they used the Park 75 as a foundation as it had the closest character and response to the Chimera, so I figured I’d give it a try.

To get something like the EQ curve of a 5E3 with its Tone knob at 50% as a base, I started with a fairly flat setting (Bass and Treble at 0, Mids at 10) and then slightly boosted the bass. Then I tweaked Treble and Presence to get more brightness, and tried different bass settings to recreate UK / US switch on the Monarch / the bass adjustment on the Chimera. This, yeah, got closest and sounds great imo!

US Princess with the EQ set similarly (mids at 10, bass at a little above 0, treble at 0) was a pretty good start too, and I love how it takes drive pedals, though even with the mids pushed their character is so different it never quite sounded right. Plus, once you start to add any brightness in, it thins out, and adding bass back in to counter that just creates that mid scoop. This could probably be solved by setting the EQ to that flat-ish setting and then using an EQ block to tweak it, but eh.

So, the Park 75 seems to be closest so far, but there are a lot of Tweed-adjacent amps in the Helix—so I’m wondering if anyone else has attempted this and gotten close?

Oh, and btw all of this was done through the 2x12 Match H30 cab block. That cab has Celestion G12H30 speakers in it, which is what the custom Benson speakers are based on (according to their copy), and apparently what their combos and cabs used to have in them before the custom speakers.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Anyone attempted to get a Benson Chimera / Monarch type sound in the Helix?

Can you post a link to a video (or other media) using the sound you're after?

 

[Perrymusica]

Anyone attempted to get a Benson Chimera / Monarch type sound in the Helix?

I haven’t actually played a Benson, but some guitarists I like use them, and I’ve listened to a lot of demoes and I love the sound, so I’ve been spending time trying to get in the ballpark of them in the Helix.

I looked it up and a lot of people have asked about how to do this (and asked about getting it in the Fractals too), and the typical answer seems to be to use a Tweed Deluxe model… but idk. I can get the basic sound fairly close, but it falls apart with drive pedals, whereas the Bensons seem to take drive pedals really well.

I saw some other people say to combine a different preamp model with the Tweed Deluxe amp model, since apparently the Bensons are 5E3 based but have a different preamp and phase inverter design (I’m guessing for more clean headroom? But idk). One post specifically said to use the Voltage Queen preamp, and I can see how this would work, but I didn’t have much luck really.

I actually got closest with the Park 75. That WorshipTutorials channel sells a Chimera preset for the Helix that uses a tone match IR. I’m not really interested in that (or buying a preset), but they said they used the Park 75 as a foundation as it had the closest character and response to the Chimera, so I figured I’d give it a try.

To get something like the EQ curve of a 5E3 with its Tone knob at 50% as a base, I started with a fairly flat setting (Bass and Treble at 0, Mids at 10) and then slightly boosted the bass. Then I tweaked Treble and Presence to get more brightness, and tried different bass settings to recreate UK / US switch on the Monarch / the bass adjustment on the Chimera. This, yeah, got closest and sounds great imo!

US Princess with the EQ set similarly (mids at 10, bass at a little above 0, treble at 0) was a pretty good start too, and I love how it takes drive pedals, though even with the mids pushed their character is so different it never quite sounded right. Plus, once you start to add any brightness in, it thins out, and adding bass back in to counter that just creates that mid scoop. This could probably be solved by setting the EQ to that flat-ish setting and then using an EQ block to tweak it, but eh.

So, the Park 75 seems to be closest so far, but there are a lot of Tweed-adjacent amps in the Helix—so I’m wondering if anyone else has attempted this and gotten close?

Oh, and btw all of this was done through the 2x12 Match H30 cab block. That cab has Celestion G12H30 speakers in it, which is what the custom Benson speakers are based on (according to their copy), and apparently what their combos and cabs used to have in them before the custom speakers.

Yes, I had to do that work a few months ago. I based it on several screenshots of Quadcortex's Benson Chimera and a video sent to me by the person who commissioned the job. I'm at work now. If you'd like, leave me your contact information in a private message, and I'll send it to you when I get home. Honestly, I wasn't familiar with that amp; it was a nice challenge to recreate it.

 

[synthpenguin]

Oops, sorry, I forgot I asked that question haha

Can you post a link to a video (or other media) using the sound you're after?

Sure!

The basic character of the amp I think is shown in the section of this video right at 0:50 to 1:30:

If you're curious, a few more timestamps for quick examples of various sounds (I definitely don't expect anyone to listen to all of these though haha) ~
4:21 (single coil, clean sound, tone turned down)
5:13 (single coil, clean sound, "British setting", which cuts the bass and some treble for a mid focus)
5:55 (humbucker, light crunch, British setting)
8:12 (single coil, overdriven sound, British setting)
8:43 (single coil, overdriven sound, but back to the "American setting", which is bassier and fuzzier, but more defined than a pushed Tweed)
9:45 (humbucker, British setting, overdriven sound)

Also, at 9:30 here is a good example of just some chords through a driven sound on the American setting with humbuckers:

This video also covers a lot of sounds in a short period of time:

I will say, it's a very classic sounding amp, not exactly groundbreaking, but I like it a lot. It's very balanced, but can also be pretty aggressive. From what I've heard, it's pretty Tweed-y on the American setting (which makes sense with the architecture), but with tighter bass and less fuzz (and more headroom). The British setting pushes it a little more into Vox AC normal channel territory, or maybe Supro sort of? In both modes, it has great clarity without ever being super bright (even with the Tone knob up and a Tele bridge pickup). It also takes fuzz and stuff like that really nicely, though those videos don't show that.

Yes, I had to do that work a few months ago. I based it on several screenshots of Quadcortex's Benson Chimera and a video sent to me by the person who commissioned the job. I'm at work now. If you'd like, leave me your contact information in a private message, and I'll send it to you when I get home. Honestly, I wasn't familiar with that amp; it was a nice challenge to recreate it.

Thanks, that's cool! No need to send it to me or anything, though I appreciate it, but do you remember how you generally approached it?

- - -

JayLeonardJ, who did the video above, also demoed the Mixwave Benson plugin, which I think sounds nice too. I might demo it this weekend and do some A/B with different Helix model (though I hate having to make an account and do the iLok stuff just for that haha)

 

[Sascha Franck]

Small trio (voc, db, git) outdoor gig today.
Weather conditions were like this:

So, daylight but not particularly bright, no direct sun at all.

The devices in use:

Yes, the Stomp is switched on.
Bass player's reaction: "Weren't you recommending this thing to me?" (which I was) "Are you kidding me?"

Seriously, this is just embarassing. And even worse than with the Floor (and it's been one of the main reasons I sold it). These devices very clearly have never been put under serious stress tests (or the results have simply been ignored).
Now, for this particular gig, I knew I wouldn't have to touch any parameters at all, but not even being able to see the selected patch is quite something - especially considering that the older, *way* cheaper G3 displays have zero issues to show their content very clearly.

I said this before, but that's an issue L6 needs to urgently adress with their new line of modelers (whenever they may come).

 

[ballhawk]

I said this before, but that's an issue L6 needs to urgently adress with their new line of modelers

I agree, and L6 is not the only one. But on a lighter note, it made me think of a solution.

I'll bet that DI is working on the new holographic projection system as we speak

 

[Sascha Franck]

I agree, and L6 is not the only one.

But defenitely the worst among all devices I ever owned. The "heart" of my main board is a GT-1000, and while not absolutely great, I can see the patch name and the status of all switches rather clearly under any conditions. With the Stomp, I could hardly use the tuner, even if the switch LEDs are used as an indicator.
As said, for this particular gig it's been not much of an issue as I was only using one patch and didn't even really need to see the switches (let alone we had to move inside anyway because it started to rain), but for most typical gigs I'm playing with this small setup, I'm using 2 patches - and that simply wouldn't work at all anymore.

 

[molul]

Agreed. I only played live in a cloudy day morning and I suffered to see what preset and snapshot I was in. If I had many gigs like that, I would need to figure out a way to cast some shadow on the screen.

 

[molul]

I was showing my Helix LT to a friend. He liked it overall, and told me it would be nice having the tuner show just on footswitch press, not hold.

I told him it's not fully discarded adding that in a future update, then he said "yeah, but what if you also use tap tempo frequently?", and I was like "@#&, that's true".

But after talking a bit more about it, we found a way that might work. Assuming a setting "tuner/tap tempo" with options "default" (current behavior) and "alternative", on the second mode:

-Quick press FS12 to show/hide tuner (footswitch led is always on).

-Hold FS12 for a second to enable tap tempo (led blinks). While on that mode, quick press to set tempo and hold again to exit tap tempo mode (led is always on again, and quick pressing shows the tuner.



Thought I'd post that here hoping it might help @Digital Igloo greenlight this addition soon :)

 

[Digital Igloo]

I said this before, but that's an issue L6 needs to urgently adresss with their new line of modelers (whenever they may come).

Apples and oranges.

We've brought all the contenders with modern, color LCDs outside on super bright SoCal days and none of them fare well in this regard. But Helix/HX doesn't fare worse than any of them. Fractal, Neural, Fender, Headrush, TC Electronic, Mooer, Hotone, BOSS GX-100, Zoom G11, etc.—they ALL suck as far as visibility in bright sunlight. You pretty much have to upgrade to gas pump-type displays designed specifically for outdoor use, which are exorbitantly expensive and likely outside the scope of multieffects processors. Anti-glare filters can help, but not much.

You can have a nice color LCD with a modern UI—OR—you can have a monochrome transflective (or super slow E-ink!) display with better visibility in bright sunlight. For better or worse, the masses have overwhelmingly voted for which one they prefer.

But to be fair, you can blame us for starting this trend with Helix Floor.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Apples and oranges.

We've brought all the contenders with modern, color LCDs outside on super bright SoCal days and none of them fare well in this regard. But Helix/HX doesn't fare worse than any of them. Fractal, Neural, Fender, Headrush, TC Electronic, Mooer, Hotone, BOSS GX-100, Zoom G11, etc.—they ALL suck as far as visibility in bright sunlight. You pretty much have to upgrade to gas pump-type displays designed specifically for outdoor use, which are exorbitantly expensive and likely outside the scope of multieffects processors. Anti-glare filters can help, but not much.

You can have a nice color LCD with a modern UI—OR—you can have a monochrome transflective (or super slow E-ink!) display with better visibility in bright sunlight. For better or worse, the masses have overwhelmingly voted for which one they prefer.

But to be fair, you can blame us for starting this trend with Helix Floor.

Someone needs to make a hood for the screens. They make those for DSLR‘s for the same problem.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Someone needs to make a hood for the screens. They make those for DSLR‘s for the same problem.

gearbyceba.com

 

[Sascha Franck]

We've brought all the contenders with modern, color LCDs outside on super bright SoCal days and none of them fare well in this regard.

Then just don't do a "modern, color LCD". As easy as that.

BOSS GX-100,

No idea about the GX-100 but the GT-1000 does fine. At least the switch LEDs are always visible just fine, the HX series ones aren't.

You can have a nice color LCD with a modern UI—OR—you can have a monochrome transflective (or super slow E-ink!) display with better visibility in bright sunlight. For better or worse, the masses have overwhelmingly voted for which one they prefer.

I'm sure these "masses" haven't been playing outdoor shows before casting their vote.

Seriously, for me it's all the way function over form. The HX displays are the opposite.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Someone needs to make a hood for the screens.

I built myself one in the HX Floor days. They don't help much (if at all) under diffuse lightning conditions.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Then just don't do a "modern, color LCD". As easy as that... Seriously, for me it's all the way function over form. The HX displays All modern multieffects with color LCDs are the opposite.

FTFY.

Regardless, Line 6 needs to sell boxes and flagship multieffects without modern, high-resolution color LCDs simply don't sell well.

 

[Sascha Franck]

FTFY.

It's just not true.

In addition, you could've added an "LT-Display-Mode" to the Floor. Or just a b/w-mode (yes, I know it's still no monochrome display, but at least there'd be maximum contrast). But you refused doing so, even if the horrible visibility was a wellknown issue.

And besides, that still doesn't change anything with the LED rings also being sub-standard.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Then just don't do a "modern, color LCD". As easy as that.


No idea about the GX-100 but the GT-1000 does fine. At least the switch LEDs are always visible just fine, the HX series ones aren't.



I'm sure these "masses" haven't been playing outdoor shows before casting their vote.

Seriously, for me it's all the way function over form. The HX displays are the opposite.

you're in the minority. Most people want color screens on their modelers. In case you haven't noticed every modeler since 2015 that's not a BOSS.

 

[Sascha Franck]

you're in the minority. Most people want color screens on their modelers. In case you haven't noticed every modeler since 2015 that's not a BOSS.

Most people don't seem to play outdoor gigs. I'd even go as far as to say that most people using modelers don't play much gigs at all.

However, even with the color LCD being a must, things could be done considerably better. Not only are some other displays less of an issue (my cheap Samsung Tab A9 offers way better visibility under the very same conditions), no, there could as well be a different display mode, offering larger items and more color contrast.
And as said, at least the LED rings shouldn't be an issue. But they are.
With the Floor, the scribble strips shouldn't be an issue, either. They could be LEDs rather than LCDs. They don't allow custom coloring anyway. But as is, they pretty much vanish under bright/diffuse light conditions.

Seriously, there's not much to defend here in favour of Line 6. And believe me, I defenitely wish that was different.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Most people don't seem to play outdoor gigs. I'd even go as far as to say that most people using modelers don't play much gigs at all.

However, even with the color LCD being a must, things could be done considerably better. Not only are some other displays less of an issue (my cheap Samsung Tab A9 offers way better visibility under the very same conditions), no, there could as well be a different display mode, offering larger items and more color contrast.
And as said, at least the LED rings shouldn't be an issue. But they are.
With the Floor, the scribble strips shouldn't be an issue, either. They could be LEDs rather than LCDs. They don't allow custom coloring anyway. But as is, they pretty much vanish under bright/diffuse light conditions.

Seriously, there's not much to defend here in favour of Line 6. And believe me, I defenitely wish that was different.

Outdoor shows in broad daylight aren’t a thing in my area (Chicago). They’re either inside, or outside with cover. I just can’t imagine it being an issue. I’ve got several friends gigging outdoors with Helix. No issues.