Helix Talk

[dbagchee]

Yeah if I remember right it was more a UI challenge for fitting more blocks than the DSP thing - also the intent being a "pedal board add on" vs all in one - going from 6-8 was a good compromise and they had to shrink the blocks in the edit display to get them to fit. Fitting 16 would require some excellent eyesight or an overhaul of how it gets displayed. If they can figure out how to support 16 blocks I won't say no!

This is what it used to look like with 6:

 

[JCW308]

I don’t get what block limits has to do with heat. You can reach the dsp limit with less than 8 blocks. Run a poly block and a few more and your there.

Because some flat-earther / chem trail person equated DSP limits to over-heating the processor.

 

[Sleezy E]

There also comes a point where it starts to cannibalize the LT

Mo money.... mo better

 

[pipelineaudio]

Ill take a mini pedal sized HX1 with no crippleware limits and no screen and all programming has to be done in hx edit

 

[pipelineaudio]

There also comes a point where it starts to cannibalize the LT

Mo money.... mo better

Hence why I am assuming its crippleware

 

[James Freeman]

Fitting 16 would require some excellent eyesight

There is no difference to how 16 will be displayed, except maybe tweaking the routing line thickness or moving the blocks 1-2 pixels up/down which will not change how visible things are.

EQ, gain/volume, looper, wah, filters, modulation, these take next to nothing from the DSP.
I don't mind if things get even smaller, I need more blocks.

 

[holoholo]

I mean I would love more blocks. But now that James, 2203 bringer to Helix, Freeman is on it, it’s just a matter of time.

 

[EOengineer]

It must just be the nature of electric guitarists, we’re always trying to squeeze just a little more out of our gear.

If more blocks are essential though, you’ve probably picked the wrong product - crippleware or not.

 

[Sleezy E]

Hence why I am assuming its crippleware

If you are inferring that they are crippling their own IP to make more profit on their other IP... I don't see a problem.

Why would a company compete with itself?

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Fitting Poly blocks into an already built-out signal path usually ends up with problems. IME it's better to start with those DSP-intensive blocks and build around them.

I've fit Poly Pitch, Deluxe Compressor, Essex A30 and IR, tremolo and reverb into a Stomp preset..can't remember if a delay was involved but I needed the Poly Pitch to mimic the baritone guitar for Chain of Fools. Before the IR/Cab Block overhaul I wasn't able to fit an IR or cab into the preset whereas afterwards I was. In a normal Stomp preset I could see easily adding more blocks without hitting the DSP wall.

I'm totally pipe dreaming here, and of course this takes Line6's vision of Stomp as a simpler pedalboard-friendly HX device and tosses it out the window, but I could imagine the display screen on the Stomp could scroll left/right to show more of the signal path if more than 8 blocks were allowed. I'd imagine this would be quite some work for the boys in Calabasas for little return and only affecting 2 SKU's. Maybe a whole signal path overhaul for the entire HX line that includes these and options like multiple parallel, side chaining, etc. would make it all worth it?

/pass it

 

[James Freeman]

Maybe a whole signal path overhaul for the entire HX line that includes these and options like multiple parallel, side chaining, etc. would make it all worth it?

I think they talked about it internally many times, maybe even came up with solutions that we don't see yet.
Nobody can disagree that very low dsp blocks like loop/wah/gain/filter/eq are wasting routing space, in other words, in my opinion there is a poor balance between processing power and UI in the Stomp, very obvious for someone who has a full Helix or Native.

 

[pipelineaudio]

If you are inferring that they are crippling their own IP to make more profit on their other IP... I don't see a problem.

Why would a company compete with itself?

Its the definition of crippleware. Look at tiered DAWs and plugins.

 

[the swede]

Now that so many years have passed it would be a cool thing to do at least…
Make volume, FX loop and such things “block free”…. Make em dots.

Free da Stomp!

 

[the swede]

(and perhaps the looper), for "free".

I don’t think it could ever be “free”, maybe “block free” yes. But not “free” like how headrush solves it. If I’m not mistaken, HR use a separate dsp/memory thingy to allow it to be “global” whereas the Helix looper is on the same shared dsp.

I may be completely wrong about everything though… so I will be very happy to be corrected and punished about it.

 

[holoholo]

My dream is we get a game changing quality of life feature in 4.0 that no one will care about block limits afterwards:

Can one of the 100 lb brain guys tell me if they envision some solution in the future that will go past snapshots, scenes, channels?

Yes.

 

[Sascha Franck]

There is no difference to how 16 will be displayed, except maybe tweaking the routing line thickness or moving the blocks 1-2 pixels up/down which will not change how visible things are.

Nah. 16 serial blocks would need 2 rows already, so how would you then fit in an additional split path?

I'm sure 16 blocks would be somehow doable, but that'd still require a significant change in the way the signal path is displayed.

 

[the swede]

The display and UI is the enemy. And probably a nightmare for them already as it is.
Not worth messing around with it for a bunch of….

I highly suspect they’ll leave stomp alone except for the occasional updates adding further dsp demanding effects.

What we actually are seeing if not being totally blind to the obvious, is the newer effects and models are preparing the groundwork for future hardware. Probably.

 

[ragingplatypi]

After you get all those blocks you’re going to need more snapshots and foot switches.

 

[Sascha Franck]

After you get all those blocks you’re going to need more snapshots and foot switches.

No. I can easily handle much more blocks with the available number of switches (don't even need a Stomp XL).
Maths:
1 switch = 2 sounds
2 switches = 4 sounds
3 switches = 8 sounds
This is considering just the internal switches. I wouldn't necessarily do it that way (my usual way is 2 switches for 4 sounds, the thord serving as whatever kind of light modification) but it's very easy to see how you can incorporate more than 8 blocks this way.

 

[Sleezy E]

Its the definition of crippleware. Look at tiered DAWs and plugins.

I'd agree if the the Stomp had the option to pay more to unlock more features.

It doesn't.

If you want more features you buy a different product. That's not crippleware.