Helix JCM800 2203 Request Thread (FW 3.70 new Brit 2203)!

[Elric]

@James Freeman thanks for lobbying for us Helix users. For a lot of us moving away from Helix is less than ideal/not an option, 1. Because Helix and HX Stomp offers amazing workflows, integrates beautifully with other gear, and is priced just right for a lot of folks. For me personally the FM3 is too expensive and I cannot justify the upgrade. I also love the sounds from the Helix, amp models, effects and everything. I KNOW that the sounds are in there, and I believe Line6 will one day give us a beautiful Marshall or 2.

@Digital Igloo we believe in you.

Anyone who can afford a Helix can afford an FM3. Anyone not living paycheck to paycheck certainly can. Most people here have phones that cost more than an FM3, etc.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Iirc; I liked the HX one the best.

No

"The Helix is just so gainy..."

 

[James Freeman]

The amount of gain in the Helix 2204 model is in the normal range of an early JCM800 2204 from that era, they have a lower B+ and are gainier than latter JCM800's and even the 2203.
The fuzzy loose sound of this model comes from missing treble peaking caps and the bright cap on the gain pot, it's a common mod, sounds okayish for single coil guitars like Strats/Teles, but shit for Les Pauls or humbucker guitars, definitely not how a factory stock 2204 should be.

Line 6 have a very nice early JCM800 2204, but the Helix model doesn't do it justice at all.
Also, I see THREE vintage Marshall 1959's.... but the only Brit Plexi Bright model is too fat sounding and missing the bright cap.
Why we don't have a 70s spec 1959 with 0.0022nF coupling and 4.7nF bright cap in the Helix?

Line 6 have the vintage Marshalls, the good stuff, but the Helix models are not so great.
They really need to refresh all the early Helix Marshall models, return the amps to stock, bright caps and all, re-model the Marshall with Ben's experience as of 2023.
Deliver a "Marshall Update" that will make even the most picky Marshall connoisseur proud to own a Helix.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I have owned several vertical JMP’s from 1977-1982, all serviced and signed off by Marshall and none had anywhere close to the amount of gain as the Helix one.

The lower B+ makes a noticeable difference to for sure, but IME the biggest difference is in the feel (stiff vs squishy), as well as having a smidge more gain. I found to match my (lowest B+ and gainiest) amp to Helix’s model, I had to lower the input gain by 12dB.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Also - Line 6’s model in the photos above doesn’t look like a JMP. My guess is it’s a 1981 or 1982 JCM800 2204. My 1981 sounded great, the 1982 was stiffer and less gainy:

1982:

1981 (compared like for like with Helix 2204):

1979:

 

[James Freeman]

Line 6’s model in the photos above doesn’t look like a JMP. My guess is it’s a 1981 or 1982 JCM800 2204.

Yep. I don't think I said is was a JMP? Though I did post a few youtube clips of JMP's.
To my ear the 1981 clip above demonstrates that NDSP's Henson does not nail that sound either, and Helix is not even close.

I found to match my (lowest B+ and gainiest) amp to Helix’s model, I had to lower the input gain by 12dB.

12dB?
Seems like a huge error to be realistic, maybe it's the low frequencies distorting giving the impression of more gain?
My reference is the Softube JMP 2203 calibrated to 1v Peak = 0dBFS, they are not 12dB apart.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Yep. I don't think I said is was a JMP? Though I did post a few youtube clips of JMP's.
To my ear the 1981 clip above demonstrates that NDSP's Henson does not nail that sound either, and Helix is not even close.

I think the lower B+ 2204's tend to be the 70's versions? (as in the JMP era). Haven't compared enough to be certain though, but its the impression I've got from when guys like Friedman talk about working on them (Marshall seemed to go nuts with voltages in the early 70's, then it dips throughout the 70's and starts going up again in the 80's).

Could be the fuzzier sound giving that impression. On all my comparison tests, I was always able to get the Helix 2204 closer by lowering the input (which is something I never usually have to do on Helix models). Henson to me seems closer to a JMP era 2204 (than say my 1982 or 1981 2204). 1V=0dBFS for Softube seems to make things a bit gainier than I'd expect from most 2203/2204's too, but its in the ballpark

 

[Blix]

For reference, Axe Brit 800 here with a strat, starts with gain at 7.3, goosing it to 10 at 19 seconds in, where you hear that the bright cap works, as it gets fatter with gain at 10 :)

 

[James Freeman]

I think the lower B+ 2204's tend to be the 70's versions? (as in the JMP era).

The low B+ (~380v to 400v) for the 2204 models was used in the JCM800 era too, up to early '82 as far as I can find on forums.

Edit:
For the higher B+ (~450 to 480v DC) 50W 2204 JCM800, a second dropping 10k resistor is often added to bring the preamp back to Pre-'82 era 2204 voltages.
The 100W 2203 Never had lower voltage B+, it was always 450v+ since the first MV JMP back in '76, and was less gainy than the 50W 2204.

 

[Stone]

Another Marshal in the Fractal I really like is the Plexi 50 watt 6CA7

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Just from my experience, basing a JCM800 gain level off the Helix (or Softube at 1V=0dBFS) is probably going to put them more as outlier amps than a kind of typical benchmark. There's a reason they were so commonly modded and/or boosted with pedals, they aren't THAT gainy stock (certainly less gainy than people think).

 

[James Freeman]

Well if Line 6 decides to refresh the Marshalls they are not going to make the same mistakes they did back in 2013 when they started working on the Helix.
The Brit 2204 and Brit Plexi are launch models, the tools and experience improved a lot in 10 years, I assume the new Helix Marshalls are going to be substantially better.

 

[DrewJD82]

They better call it ’Not A Freeman 2203”

 

[James Freeman]

At this point I don't care if they call it 'STFUJF 2203', if it's on par with the Softube JMP 2203 my work here is done.

 

[the swede]

If I understand it correctly, the actual JCM800 they have… is still missing the “thingy” so it doesn’t matter if they remodel it?

 

[kartikg3]

If I understand it correctly, the actual JCM800 they have… is still missing the “thingy” so it doesn’t matter if they remodel it?

They should add the thingy back and remodel it.. or find a good one with a thingy and model that one. I am sure loads of folks are ready to loan theirs for the greater good of the Helix community.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

If I understand it correctly, the actual JCM800 they have… is still missing the “thingy” so it doesn’t matter if they remodel it?

The “thingy” costs about 10 cents in parts and could be added back to the amp in 60 seconds with alligator clips if they don’t want to get a soldering iron near it

 

[DieSchmalle]

The "thingy" is a high shelf that can be "soldered in" digitally by the user.

 

[Cactusprick]

The amount of gain in the Helix 2204 model is in the normal range of an early JCM800 2204 from that era, they have a lower B+ and are gainier than latter JCM800's and even the 2203.
The fuzzy loose sound of this model comes from missing treble peaking caps and the bright cap on the gain pot, it's a common mod, sounds okayish for single coil guitars like Strats/Teles, but s**t for Les Pauls or humbucker guitars, definitely not how a factory stock 2204 should be.

Line 6 have a very nice early JCM800 2204, but the Helix model doesn't do it justice at all.
Also, I see THREE vintage Marshall 1959's.... but the only Brit Plexi Bright model is too fat sounding and missing the bright cap.
Why we don't have a 70s spec 1959 with 0.0022nF coupling and 4.7nF bright cap in the Helix?

Line 6 have the vintage Marshalls, the good stuff, but the Helix models are not so great.
They really need to refresh all the early Helix Marshall models, return the amps to stock, bright caps and all, re-model the Marshall with Ben's experience as of 2023.
Deliver a "Marshall Update" that will make even the most picky Marshall connoisseur proud to own a Helix.

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I desire to be in this room.... right now.....

 

[Deadpan]

I just had my 1979 2204 serviced. It is a new amp. I wonder what the state of the Line 6 amps are?