Guns N Roses - Appetite For Destruction CABS

[MirrorProfiles]

So much written about the guitar and amp used on this album, less information about the cabs/speakers.

Lots of suggestion of V30’s which seems unlikely to me - the recording took place in January 1987. I think a few Marshall combo’s and the Jubilee would have been the first to have V30’s but the Jubilee came out in 87, and it’s unlikely they’d be buying up combos to move the cabs into 4x12’s.

Furthermore, they weren’t even called Vintage 30’s at that point - they were Marshall labelled G12 Vintage’s. The Vintage 30 name came later when other manufacturers were using them.

I quickly tried a few of my IR’s just now to try and narrow it down. V30’s don’t really sound anything like it, nor do T75’s or G12-65’s. Greenbacks had a similarity without being quite right, but by far the closest I could get was with G12H30 Blackback’s.

I wonder if Vintage 30W Celestions has been misconstrued into “Celestion V30”?

I’ll try and do some clips of various ones to demonstrate. My guess is that they were mic’d basically dead centre and EQ’d on the board a bit, but again, maybe someone knows more?

 

[James Freeman]

Looking at the curves of isolated guitar tracks form that album, definitely not V30s.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a G12-65 or Greenbacks.

 

[RaceU4her]

g1265's and even the g12 vintage id say are too smooth for those tones in my experiences, i would guess green or blackbacks

 

[Jarick]

I've seen a few impulse responses that are supposed to get close to the AFD sound.

ML Sound Lab did a pack with Richard Fortus using a 4x12 Marshall Slash signature, which had V30's.

York Audio released a pack with an AFD mix, again using a 4x12 Marshall with V30's.

Ownhammer's GNR pack is based on an old Marshall 4x12 with 25w Greenbacks that was apparently used for Chinese Democracy. This sounds a little fuller/smoother than that mid focused AFD sound.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I've seen a few impulse responses that are supposed to get close to the AFD sound.

ML Sound Lab did a pack with Richard Fortus using a 4x12 Marshall Slash signature, which had V30's.

York Audio released a pack with an AFD mix, again using a 4x12 Marshall with V30's.

V30's just don't check out timeframe (or sound) wise to me, I think over time they have gained an association with Slash but in 1987 I don't think they would have been available yet. I think for "Slash style" tones they make sense but for the AFD tone it has to have been something else.

not saying this is it, but for now its the closest in character I can find so far. It definitely sounds like there is a healthy smattering of console EQ on the tone (lows filtered, honky midrange boosted) as well as some saturation (either driving the desk or tape machine). Used Mercuriall Spark (demo) #34. Caveat that I am not Slash, I don't have his playing ability, his guitar/pickups, his amp, his amp settings, know any info about cabs/speakers/mics, nor the processing that went on. Not trying to copy, so much as understand what it is.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Amplitube has an AFD 100 model, as does FM-3. I believe there are some NAM and ToneX ones about too.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

g1265's and even the g12 vintage id say are too smooth for those tones in my experiences, i would guess green or blackbacks

Agree totally. I dont think its T75's either - I'm leaning towards some kind of Greenback/Blackback variant with a LOT of volume, and a healthy amount of console EQ+saturation

 

[Jarick]

V30's just don't check out timeframe (or sound) wise to me, I think over time they have gained an association with Slash but in 1987 I don't think they would have been available yet. I think for "Slash style" tones they make sense but for the AFD tone it has to have been something else.

not saying this is it, but for now its the closest in character I can find so far. It definitely sounds like there is a healthy smattering of console EQ on the tone (lows filtered, honky midrange boosted) as well as some saturation (either driving the desk or tape machine). Used Mercuriall Spark (demo) #34. Caveat that I am not Slash, I don't have his playing ability, his guitar/pickups, his amp, his amp settings, know any info about cabs/speakers/mics, nor the processing that went on. Not trying to copy, so much as understand what it is.

View attachment 8457

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Amplitube has an AFD 100 model, as does FM-3. I believe there are some NAM and ToneX ones about too.

Have you heard the Ownhammer Friedman pack? He shot I think three different sets of V30's and three different sets of 25w Greenbacks. It's interesting how different they all sounded. The oldest V30's were supposed to sound like old Greenbacks, and both speakers have changed a lot over the years.

You may be right about the Blackback thing too, at least from the York Audio ones I've heard, they have this upper midrange snarl thing that sounds awesome, and kind of reminds me of the Slash sound. And I think the production is in the mid 70's which would have been really common for a studio or rental company to have in the mid 80's.

Also, have you tried Slash pickups? I had some for a bit, and they are interesting and definitely helped get that vibe (if that's what you're after). The A2 magnets help with the squishy part of the sound and attack, the bridge is fairly hot and very mid focused, and the neck is pretty fat sounding.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Have you heard the Ownhammer Friedman pack? He shot I think three different sets of V30's and three different sets of 25w Greenbacks. It's interesting how different they all sounded. The oldest V30's were supposed to sound like old Greenbacks, and both speakers have changed a lot over the years.

You may be right about the Blackback thing too, at least from the York Audio ones I've heard, they have this upper midrange snarl thing that sounds awesome, and kind of reminds me of the Slash sound. And I think the production is in the mid 70's which would have been really common for a studio or rental company to have in the mid 80's.

Also, have you tried Slash pickups? I had some for a bit, and they are interesting and definitely helped get that vibe (if that's what you're after). The A2 magnets help with the squishy part of the sound and attack, the bridge is fairly hot and very mid focused, and the neck is pretty fat sounding.

I haven’t tried those IR’s! I’ll check the demos out. I do have some 1992 V30’s and 1992 g12m25 6402 Greenbacks in my collection. I’ve made of about 15 V30 loaded cabs and they vary a ton, I’d definitely attest to the older ones having a more “Greenback” quality to the top end.

So far all the V30’s I’ve tried are too smooth in the midrange, it’s a more modern voicing to me rather than the open and scratchy tone of Greenbacks/H30’s. Perhaps with a different mic V30’s could work…

I’m curious to try some Alnico II style pickups - it’s been years I used any like that - I’ve tended to favour higher output pickups (ceramic or Alnico V generally) but I can imagine Alnico II’s would tame the top end of the AFD/#34 circuit and bring the mods out more…..

I’m actually not too fussed either way about the tone or using it for myself, but I love to learn and understand how these classic tones were achieved

 

[RaceU4her]

i have a ltd with the alinco II's he used, maybe ill try a speaker comparison on a guns and roses riff

 

[Stone]

I wonder how much the the pickups really have on the overall effect?
most always tone is amp and speakers, and of course need to really mention technique

 

[RaceU4her]

I wonder how much the the pickups really have on the overall effect?
most always tone is amp and speakers, and of course need to really mention technique

Maybe not as much as amps, speakers and mics but they do have effect, I know it would probably be hard to really nail the AFD tones that are kind of crispy and thinner with let’s say a duncan invader or something of the like

 

[JiveTurkey]

Guns N Roses as a gif

 

[hemmelight]

(yes, hating Axl is perfectly valid lol)




edit: Full transparency I love Appetite. One of the best hard rock albums ever.

 

[santiall]

my personal impression when working on it, listening to the AFD masters and also for 'historical' reasons, is that the speakers would most likely have been greenbacks or some sort of Greenback cousin.
I did use Greenbacks in the development along with V30s as Slash was very clear the he wanted to use V30s.

 

[RaceU4her]

here is a very quick comparison i made with my different speakers, its my DSL100H and a unidyne 57 in order of greenback, G12h30, g1265, G12 vintage, vintage 30. i just kept everything at basically noon on red 1, no post processing, just a left and right track.

https://app.box.com/embed/s/5wye3rldo5ionhnvrofssklcf2w618jf

 

[Jarick]

I wonder how much the the pickups really have on the overall effect?
most always tone is amp and speakers, and of course need to really mention technique

I do think it's mostly amp and speakers, but I mentioned the pickups as I had a pair of Slash ones and was surprised how much of that vibe they brought. For the record I've never tried to get at a Slash tone and while I dig GNR have never really considered Slash any kind of influence. I just happened to have a set of his pickups I got cheap once.

 

[blackie13]

It was G12-80 I think...

The nowadays Classic Lead 80...

 

[Life Eats Life]

g1265's and even the g12 vintage id say are too smooth for those tones in my experiences, i would guess green or blackbacks