Getting a tone and a groove.

[Eagle]

Nonsense. Even groove is subjective.

Utter rubbish

 

[Eagle]

I sense some fragile ego’s

 

[Orvillain]

Utter rubbish

Go on then, define your terms. I'll play.

I sense some fragile ego’s

Again, go on. I'll play. Why???

 

[SillyOctpuss]

I sense some fragile ego’s

Everything in music is completely subjective. Literally everything.

 

[the-trooper]

Utter rubbish

Groove is subjective. Has everything to do with you as an individual, or a collective, or a group, or a society, or a community, your musical conditioning, your religious beliefs. What grooves for me, may not groove for you. You wanna make laws about this, SRV doesn't groove for me for God sake.

 

[Eagle]

Everything in music is completely subjective. Literally everything.

Only composition.

 

[Snags]

He has written some good songs but not a great player. This is about objectively what makes you a great musician.

I don't think there's anything that makes you objectively a great musician. Not universally for all time and all people. It's just not objective. There's no tick list of items that you run through to say "Great" or "Not great". Or rather, if there is, many of the items on that list will be entirely subjective, and related to taste ... and taste is in the eye/ear of the beholder.

So what objectively makes a great musician? Technique? Technical ability? Emotional connection? Groove? And how do you define the last two? I mean, on that video in the OP, the playing at the end - yeah, technically good, but it didn't have "groove" for me, and for me personally, I'd be happy if I never heard it again. It wasn't bad or wrong, but it didn't get me in the feels. I'm guessing you'd feel differently though. Which is the very definition of subjective.

 

[Snags]

Nonsense. Even groove is subjective.

I think you'll find that groove is in the heart.

 

[Eagle]

Groove is subjective. Has everything to do with you as an individual, or a collective, or a group, or a society, or a community, your musical conditioning, your religious beliefs. What grooves for me, may not groove for you. You wanna make laws about this, SRV doesn't groove for me for God sake.

Post an example of what groves for you.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Only composition.

I'll refer you back to your own point utter rubbish.

 

[Eagle]

I think you'll find that groove is in the heart.

BS. Groove is how you bend the timing away from a metronome to imply mood. Measurable learnable but you need to understand and hear it to use and manipulate it.

 

[Eagle]

I'll refer you back to your own point utter rubbish.

So no objective good for technique?

 

[Eagle]

Go on then, define your terms. I'll play.


Again, go on. I'll play. Why???

Post what is good in your terms. Something you like and something you don't but you can recognise as good but not your thing.

 

[the-trooper]

Post an example of what groves for you.

 

[Eagle]

Now explain why this does it for you.

 

[the-trooper]

Now explain why this does it for you.

Me like.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I think you'll find that groove is in the heart.

aye yai yai

 

[Orvillain]

Post what is good in your terms. Something you like and something you don't but you can recognise as good but not your thing.

By asking that question, you've already agreed to my premise. If I post something that I think grooves, and you disagree, where is that going to leave us? It'll be one of two places:

1 - You'll assert that you're right, and I'm wrong and that I don't know the first thing about groove. And that aint gonna be a pleasant exchange of viewpoints when it is all said and done.
2 - You'll agree that it is groovy, even if it isn't your thing, and thus my position of groove being subjective will be proven true.

There's literally no point in continuing this conversation until you define your terms. I tell you what though, I did find this after a quick 30 second search: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0305735618792440 - unfortunately the full article is hidden behind a paywall.

Also I have to say, I was really really REALLY hoping that this place wasn't going to turn into a cesspit of people trying to one-up each other. There's plenty of that idiocy over at TGP and thefretboard.co.uk - they're doing well more than their fair share. We simply don't have to.

 

[Orvillain]

aye yai yai

Puerto Rico??

 

[Snags]

BS. Groove is how you bend the timing away from a metronome to imply mood. Measurable learnable but you need to understand and hear it to use and manipulate it.

Nope, groove, much like humour, is subjective, and may also rely on knowledge of a specific context.

I'll help you out:

Dee-lite