Gain stacking various pedals. Especially beyond two of them.

[Richard_G]

I like stacking low gain pedals (as is evident on the latest iteration of my board) whether I'm going into a tube amp (e.g. my Shiva 20th) or digital (Tonex One/Tonex software, Axe-FX II, or plugins). When I want high gain, I need something else than my pedals, though they might provide the desired boost and/or alteration to an otherwise cool, high gain sound.

Edit: And no, I've never really thought this like changing IRs - as powerful as changing IRs are.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Trying to force low gain pedals to achieve the tones of high gain pedals when chained… why bother?

Because it can yield different characters of gain and some are quite interesting and useful. To me it's not just about getting more gain but also the shape of the gain, the way it responds and clips. Too much gain can be too much gain. Whether it's straight up amp gain or pedal, or a combination of both -- there's a point of diminishing returns imo. Any can sound nasty if overdone. But one method doesn't have to be superior to the other, it's all been done and done successfully live and in the studio by tons of players.

 

[Aelred]

Because it can yield different characters of gain and some are quite interesting and useful. To me it's not just about getting more gain but also the shape of the gain, the way it responds and clips. Too much gain can be too much gain. Whether it's straight up amp gain or pedal, or a combination of both -- there's a point of diminishing returns imo. Any can sound nasty if overdone. But one method doesn't have to be superior to the other, it's all been done and done successfully live and in the studio by tons of players.

I know it yields different characteristics. That's my point.

Engl Fireball 25 again. I don't get the tones/characteristics from the Clean channel with any combination of low gain pedals I have tried, and I have a few, that are sitting there with the Lead channel. But if I put a Wampler Dracarys in the chain, the Clean channel can do high gain - just not the same as the Lead channel.

When I hit the point of diminishing returns with low gain pedals, I use high gain pedals or the Lead channel. I really don't see too many people seeking the high gain of an ENGL lead channel... or Recto or SLO or Orange... using low gain pedals and amps, in studio or live.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I know it yields different characteristics. That's my point.

Engl Fireball 25 again. I don't get the tones/characteristics from the Clean channel with any combination of low gain pedals I have tried, and I have a few, that are sitting there with the Lead channel. But if I put a Wampler Dracarys in the chain, the Clean channel can do high gain - just not the same as the Lead channel.

When I hit the point of diminishing returns with low gain pedals, I use high gain pedals or the Lead channel. I really don't see too many people seeking the high gain of an ENGL lead channel... or Recto or SLO or Orange... using low gain pedals and amps, in studio or live.

I hear what you're saying, you like what you like.
Me personally, I'm not really claiming to replicate a high gain amp channel from stacking pedals. It's not about replication for me, it's about application and what I want to hear. I have/had higher gain amps too, even built a few, and they do a thing that's cool and special as well. I love tube drive pedals, have about 8, they're essentially another preamp stage into an amp. There are so many flavors of cool out there, just happy to have and enjoy using them.

 

[Aelred]

I hear what you're saying, you like what you like.
Me personally, I'm not really claiming to replicate a high gain amp channel from stacking pedals. It's not about replication for me, it's about application and what I want to hear. I have/had higher gain amps too, even built a few, and they do a thing that's cool and special as well. I love tube drive pedals, have about 8, they're essentially another preamp stage into an amp. There are so many flavors of cool out there, just happy to have and enjoy using them.

Quite so, and I am not saying at all that stacking low gain pedals is utterly pointless, that you can't get interesting tones doing it and so forth.

I was responding to the notion that stacking 3-5 low gain pedals will get high gain tones. It will get higher gain than without, and it might be interesting - but is that what many people, including me, think of when "high gain" tones are mentioned - when there are high gain pedals galore?

The tones I usually like are not what I am calling high gain here - or that I hear on Metal albums, see on Rig Rundowns for Metal acts etc. When I want to hear Metal from my speakers I don't plug into the Black Cat or Vox AC10, fine amps that they are with many great tones.

So, we agree that you are not getting such tones by stacking pedals? Cool!

 

[FuzzyAce]

So, we agree that you are not getting such tones by stacking pedals? Cool!

Not all gain pedals are created equal, you know that. I'm not scared to stack multiple distortion pedals either. BK tube drivers can get quite high gainy, I've even stacked 2 together running through a Carvin Legacy amp. Sounds glorious and even metal if needed.

I've had Bogner, Mesa pedals all of which can get metal. But even typical metal tones can run the gamut from Engl to vintage Marshall amps. Nothing is off the table imo.

My point being, hi gain comes in many flavors, some are more obvious (traditional choices) while others not so much.

 

[Aelred]

Not all gain pedals are created equal, you know that. I'm not scared to stack multiple distortion pedals either. BK tube drivers can get quite high gainy, I've even stacked 2 together running through a Carvin Legacy amp. Sounds glorious and even metal if needed.

I've had Bogner, Mesa pedals all of which can get metal. But even typical metal tones can run the gamut from Engl to vintage Marshall amps. Nothing is off the table imo.

My point being, hi gain comes in many flavors, some are more obvious (traditional choices) while others not so much.

I have no idea why you are continuiing this. I was responding to the OP - not you! - about 3-5 low gain pedals generating high gain. I have mostly agreed with what you have said.

I really don't see many metal bands in leather and iron using ES-335's and Casino's plugged into Princetons - or Carvins - with some low gain pedals. That was true in the 70's!

YMMV

 

[FuzzyAce]

I have no idea why you are continuiing this.

I just want to get the last word.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I really don't see too many people seeking the high gain of an ENGL lead channel... or Recto or SLO or Orange... using low gain pedals and amps, in studio or live.

Nobody's doing that. And why should one even try? It's also not exactly what this thread is about.