Gain stacking various pedals. Especially beyond two of them.

AFKAEjay(retired) said:
IRs are not gainstages, they do very different things then a drive pedal.
What they do have in common: they both apply their eq on a signal.
If a change in EQ is all you get from adding a gain stage…I suspect your individual gain stages are set to nuclear..and nuclear x2 is not perceived as a change in gain maybe?


Personally I never use more then 2 in front of whatever gain the amp provides.
More complicates too much for me…too many variables, gets unpredictable what does what, and I don’t hear upsides compared to manipulating a limited amount of gainstages:

I do always use EQs/cleanboosts to tickle the gainstages I use, either by simply increasing the input level to increase gain, or apply some EQ pre gain stage to change it sound/behavior. I use this method in both analog awa digital setups.
In a digital device that does “scenes”, on eq block can do different things depending on the selected scene, that makes it super flexible. One scene it might do a low cut for an overdrive sound fit for a neck pup, another scene that same stomp/eq might give me a mid and a gain boost for a lead sound.
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Describing it as changing IR’s was probably not the best idea. I meant like changing IR’s of the same speaker… it just a small shift in the upper midrange that I notice. You make great points. I’m not going nuclear on any of them. I called it “glass” into “glass” earlier. Edge of break up might be better. It might be a bad idea altogether but I’ll keep going until I’m sure. I might throw a higher gain pedal in the mix and play with placement.
 
KingsXJJ said:
Describing it as changing IR’s was probably not the best idea. I meant like changing IR’s of the same speaker… it just a small shift in the upper midrange that I notice. You make great points. I’m not going nuclear on any of them. I called it “glass” into “glass” earlier. Edge of break up might be better. It might be a bad idea altogether but I’ll keep going until I’m sure. I might throw a higher gain pedal in the mix and play with placement.
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Language is a bitch to describe sound ;)

Btw..the last pedal in the chain is the most impactfull for the end result. Allen hinds has some nice vids on YT about it.
 
JiveTurkey said:
I haven't watched it in ages. I am historically more Blue Velvet/Wild At Heart leaning. I might need to revisit.
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I’ve probably seen it half a dozen times. No movie has ever captivated as much. My brain was highjacked for weeks after my first viewing.
BV and WAH are great too. My second favorite Lynch film is Inland Empire… another great mind F’er. Laura Dern should have won an Oscar. As too with Naomi IMO.
 
KingsXJJ said:
I’ve probably seen it half a dozen times. No movie has ever captivated as much. My brain was highjacked for weeks after my first viewing.
BV and WAH are great too. My second favorite Lynch film is Inland Empire… another mind F’er. Laura Dern should have won an Oscar. As too with Naomi IMO.
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I'll report back in the movie thread when I give it another go. I get it mixed up with Mulholland Falls for obvious name reasons but they are definitely different movies.
 
Aelred said:
To me. If you like M-vave and Nux into IR, go for it. I'll retire from this thread.
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The m-valve pedals aren’t here yet. The NUX was only after the stacking experiment. The pedals that I were using in that were a mixture of Chellee Effects, Boss and Neunabor, etc. Each one costing more per piece than the three pedals I bought for my m-valve budget gear experiment.
 
I’ve never found anything in pedal stacking that gave me the level of touch sensitivity and interaction I get from an overdriven tube amp.

I have 2 plausible theories:
1. My ears are shit or I’ve not found the right combination amongst my 20 drive pedals.
2. Pedal stackers ears are shit or they just haven’t played through a good overdriven tube rig.

I guess we will never know.
 
EOengineer said:
I’ve never found anything in pedal stacking that gave me the level of touch sensitivity and interaction I get from an overdriven tube amp.

I have 2 plausible theories:
1. My ears are shit or I’ve not found the right combination amongst my 20 drive pedals.
2. Pedal stackers ears are shit or they just haven’t played through a good overdriven tube rig.

I guess we will never know.
Click to expand...

I started using overdrive pedals more often because they give consistent sound. Also it's easier to get overdriven tones at lower volumes if you are using a pedal.

Earlier I didn't use any pedal while at home, plugging straight into my amp. Nothing beats the "feel" and the tone from a tube amp.

But I read that overdriving your tube amp often reduces the "tube life". This is why I started using my pedals while practicing too.
 
EOengineer said:
I’ve never found anything in pedal stacking that gave me the level of touch sensitivity and interaction I get from an overdriven tube amp.

I have 2 plausible theories:
1. My ears are shit or I’ve not found the right combination amongst my 20 drive pedals.
2. Pedal stackers ears are shit or they just haven’t played through a good overdriven tube rig.

I guess we will never know.
Click to expand...


Leaving Awkward Moment GIF by The Great British Sewing Bee



:beer


Definitely a point of diminishing returns---but I also feel that way about 6 12AX7s in series, too. :idk
At some point why? Losing dynamics, articulation, and input sensitivity for a wall of overcompressed
saturation on saturation just isn't my thing. Even with amps I am in the 2 to 3 cascading gain stages
camp. Kind of the sweet spot for my ears.

More can be other people's thing, though. Infinite Cascading Diodes and JFETs. :banana



Not wanting to harsh other people's buzz. :cheers
 
EOengineer said:
I’ve never found anything in pedal stacking that gave me the level of touch sensitivity and interaction I get from an overdriven tube amp.

I have 2 plausible theories:
1. My ears are shit or I’ve not found the right combination amongst my 20 drive pedals.
2. Pedal stackers ears are shit or they just haven’t played through a good overdriven tube rig.

I guess we will never know.
Click to expand...

There's pretty good reasons for that (in fact just one): When you stack drive stages, you also stack compression.
When you have one single drive stage and lower the input volume (or pick softer), the result will be somewhat less drive and less output volume. But the latter won't be reduced that much (compared to doing the same with a clean patch), so the following drive stage will still be fed with quite some volume and not interact much with your input volume, just the first drive stage will.
Obviously, this is getting more noticeable when you're using two drive stages with plenty of gain for each.
It's also why I prefer to use something with very little gain as the first drive stage.

Otoh, while I don't particularly like that kinda side effect too much, either, stacked gain stages can give you interesting gain characteristics and that's something I like. For example, the ODR-1 mini that I bought recently pretty much sounds like a$$ into a clean amp (well, not exactly, but still - mainly because it's the old version without the bass cutting option), but once I run it into the HX's Grammatico GSG model coming with some bits of its own drive, it's an incredibly great feeling sound that I likely won't get from any plain amp.

And fwiw: IMO, if you really want super tight riff/chugging sounds, apart from the usual TS-into-metal-amp thing (which is more like a basscut/midboost thing anyway), drive stacking isn't the best idea.
 
Sascha Franck said:
There's pretty good reasons for that (in fact just one): When you stack drive stages, you also stack compression.
When you have one single drive stage and lower the input volume (or pick softer), the result will be somewhat less drive and less output volume. But the latter won't be reduced that much (compared to doing the same with a clean patch), so the following drive stage will still be fed with quite some volume and not interact much with your input volume, just the first drive stage will.
Obviously, this is getting more noticeable when you're using two drive stages with plenty of gain for each.
It's also why I prefer to use something with very little gain as the first drive stage.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your point, but an overdriven tube amp isn’t a single drive stage. It’s often 3 or more, and compression adds up there as well.
 
Biggest issue with stacking OD pedal usually happens for me because I have to set them in weird ways I would never run them standalone. So I'd rather have varying channel based levels of dirt from the amp then a pedal set to take those over the top.
 
EOengineer said:
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your point, but an overdriven tube amp isn’t a single drive stage. It’s often 3 or more, and compression adds up there as well.
Click to expand...

Sure, but not just as much as when stacking drive pedals. From all I know, on most topologies there's usually one main drive stage.
 
Me, I figure that lots of people smarter and better and more experienced than I am worked this out a long time ago – which is why we have so many varieties of guitars, pedals, amps etc. to choose from.

Want high gain? Buy pedals, amps and guitars designed for it. There are many.

Want classic rock? Buy amps, pedals and guitars designed for it. There are many.

Want chime? Get a Vox – or Bad Cat Black Cat – or a Vox type pedal.

Jazz? Blues? Punk? Pop? Turn your guitar into a synthesizer or a Japanese Manga singer?

Downtune? Get a Whammy or a POG.

If you want everything there is and has ever been, all at once, for next to nothing in $$$ – good luck! Modelers are great and getting better all the time.

But an amp is not a guitar and its pickups, so there’s still that.

Trying to force low gain pedals to achieve the tones of high gain pedals when chained… why bother? Buy a Wampler Dracarys or similar.
 
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