Fractal Talk

[aflynt]

Seems they tried REALLY hard to get spring into the FM3. Wondering if the CPU reduction in this FW is related. I was able to up all the reverbs up to high quality in my patches for this one.

-Aaron

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I wonder how Much CPU with one amp + Cab + Spring reverb would use up ?
would not this be the Trad setup and the way to use a Spring Reverb ? I mean i really doubt that i or anyone would use a Spring Reverb in say an EVH or John Petrucci chain or other complex chains
Im pretty sur that would satisfy all of those Jones'ing for the new Spring Reverb, OFC can't please everyone

The trad setup would be reverb -> amp -> cab.
But since there's not tremolo in the amp block on the FM3 the true trad setup would be:
reverb -> trem -> amp -> cab
But then you think about how many traditional players used this trad setup with an magnetic slap delay in front, so the trad setup becomes:
delay -> verb -> trem -> amp -> cab
And you start to realize that this trad sound is even better when you can add the console and/or tape saturation that was also kind of part-and-parcel to those vintage sounds...

The simple preset quickly grows VERY CPU hungry.

 

[mbenigni]

The trad setup would be reverb -> amp -> cab.
But since there's not tremolo in the amp block on the FM3 the true trad setup would be:
reverb -> trem -> amp -> cab
But then you think about how many traditional players used this trad setup with an magnetic slap delay in front, so the trad setup becomes:
delay -> verb -> trem -> amp -> cab
And you start to realize that this trad sound is even better when you can add the console and/or tape saturation that was also kind of part-and-parcel to those vintage sounds...

The simple preset quickly grows VERY CPU hungry.

Sure, but you can walk into the same argument using half the algorithms already in the FM3. With longer chains, I hit DSP warnings/ failures all the time - especially if I take reverb out of economy mode. (And I’ve never thought to call customer support about it, since the cause of failure is right there on the screen.)

As for the specific chain you’re describing here, this assumes everything in the box, direct to FR. Plenty of people would instead use half that chain straight to a guitar cab, which would work fine. I just don’t see how this particular effect should warrant a special “policy”.

 

[laxu]

I agree more is better. I don’t think it’s currently massively too few and I don’t find hyperbole to describe current situation is all that helpful.

.I don't want to have to use both page AND arrow buttons to navigate between things that don't seem to be different enough to warrant moving to the "page" button. Has there ever been talk about the left/right arrows moving between individual parameters on a page, but also turning the page when the last parameter is reached?

I think this will result in unexpected functionality if pages change when reaching the last parameter. In practice it might cause more frustration than it solves.

A lot of this boils down to the usual complaint of "it seems like things that should be capable of being done with one button press always require 2, which isn't a big thing once, but after 1.5 hours of use, it...starts to grate a little".

That's pretty much it. A lot of button presses to get to places, a lot of different views that take that extra moment to reorient yourself and find the cursor etc.

But a lot of it also comes down to "if I spent as much time yelling at clouds about how I wish the thing worked actually learning how the thing worked and ingraining that workflow in my brain...I might be just fine". For example, having individual direct-access buttons would be awesome, but while writing this post it occurred to me that I could get myself in the habit of using the "edit" button to move through blocks in edit mode to fairly efficiently get to the delay and reverb pages by hitting the "cab" knob and then hitting "edit" a couple times...

Every Fractal owner who uses the front panel eventually does it like this and you get reasonably quick at it. But it feels like a real chore even compared to say a Helix where you just tap a capacitive switch to get to the block you want from anywhere as long as said block bypass is mapped.

It would actually be cool to have functions for FC controllers that can just control the UI itself, like a footswitch to bring up the Performance view, or editing view of a particular block, move to next block etc. Then you could drive the UI with your feet and keep your hands on the under screen knobs!

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Sure, but you can walk into the same argument using half the algorithms already in the FM3. With longer chains, I hit DSP warnings/ failures all the time - especially if I take reverb out of economy mode. (And I’ve never thought to call customer support about it, since the cause of failure is right there on the screen.)

As for the specific chain you’re describing here, this assumes everything in the box, direct to FR. Plenty of people would instead use half that chain straight to a guitar cab, which would work fine. I just don’t see how this particular effect should warrant a special “policy”.

Yeah, I'd totally rather have the frustration of hitting DSP limit before I got to the ideal, was just a note that "even 'simple' signal chains can eat up a loooooot of DSP"

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I think this will result in unexpected functionality if pages change when reaching the last parameter. In practice it might cause more frustration than it solves.


That's pretty much it. A lot of button presses to get to places, a lot of different views that take that extra moment to reorient yourself and find the cursor etc.

Every Fractal owner who uses the front panel eventually does it like this and you get reasonably quick at it. But it feels like a real chore even compared to say a Helix where you just tap a capacitive switch to get to the block you want from anywhere as long as said block bypass is mapped.

It would actually be cool to have functions for FC controllers that can just control the UI itself, like a footswitch to bring up the Performance view, or editing view of a particular block, move to next block etc. Then you could drive the UI with your feet and keep your hands on the under screen knobs!

I'm not sure that the "frustration" of having to use the edit button to scroll through blocks would be much worse than the "frustration" of having to up/down arrow through 6+ rows of parameters on a performance page. At the end of the day, I will always be a proponent for knob-tweak ability, but am also fully aware that regardless of the UI, the experience is always better when I get real about what parameters I REALLY need to have direct-knob access to and which I can do a little bit of button pushing to get to.

The using FC to do UI was something I was thinking about.

Personally...in desktop mode, I find Helix's capacitive foot switches to be better in theory than in practice. Too many instances of reaching to turn a knob and the bottom of my forearm brushes across a switch and then I've completely altered a patch in ways I didn't mean to, etc. And...I ain't taking my socks off to keep control on the floor and use it to navigate the signal path.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Well, just like the Stomp vs. full size HX gear, if you want that full blown capability; you have to buy one of the bigger boxes. It's honestly a big enough piece as is that it isn't like it is actually ever in the running for the micro-my-rig-into-one-trip-award. Unless you are wanting to keep it in the family and downsize from the III? If you aren't wanting to put that full quality verb in your chain; you can pack a LOT into one preset. And now with gapless; it seems kind of a moot point. Unless you have to do things the hard way

 

[laxu]

I'm not sure that the "frustration" of having to use the edit button to scroll through blocks would be much worse than the "frustration" of having to up/down arrow through 6+ rows of parameters on a performance page. At the end of the day, I will always be a proponent for knob-tweak ability, but am also fully aware that regardless of the UI, the experience is always better when I get real about what parameters I REALLY need to have direct-knob access to and which I can do a little bit of button pushing to get to.

It's the back and forth that annoys me more usually. Switching rows is not so bad because it doesn't change to a whole different view, you can see the other thing you just tweaked and so on.

Personally...in desktop mode, I find Helix's capacitive foot switches to be better in theory than in practice. Too many instances of reaching to turn a knob and the bottom of my forearm brushes across a switch and then I've completely altered a patch in ways I didn't mean to, etc. And...I ain't taking my socks off to keep control on the floor and use it to navigate the signal path.

That's why the Helix Floor never worked for me as a desktop box. Too large, too much reaching over the footswitches.

 

[JiveTurkey]

~10 years later and I still don't want something to fucking change just because I touch a switch with my finger on accident

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Well, just like the Stomp vs. full size HX gear, if you want that full blown capability; you have to buy one of the bigger boxes. It's honestly a big enough piece as is that it isn't like it is actually ever in the running for the micro-my-rig-into-one-trip-award. Unless you are wanting to keep it in the family and downsize from the III? If you aren't wanting to put that full quality verb in your chain; you can pack a LOT into one preset. And now with gapless; it seems kind of a moot point. Unless you have to do things the hard way

The FM3 market, imo, has always been 80% people like me; 20% people like @la szum

I am a cheap bastard that wanted Fractal performance on an Atomic budget and spend my time complaining about the fact that I have "yeah, but he's adopted" Fractal performance.

The other group are folks that actually got it as a full blown, all-in-one device that is about as small as an actual full-blown, all in one performance device reasonably needs to be and get on with using it that way and only complain about the people complaining about the genetic differences that they knew existed when they bought the thing.

 

[jellodog]

The trad setup would be reverb -> amp -> cab.
But since there's not tremolo in the amp block on the FM3 the true trad setup would be:
reverb -> trem -> amp -> cab
But then you think about how many traditional players used this trad setup with an magnetic slap delay in front, so the trad setup becomes:
delay -> verb -> trem -> amp -> cab
And you start to realize that this trad sound is even better when you can add the console and/or tape saturation that was also kind of part-and-parcel to those vintage sounds...

The simple preset quickly grows VERY CPU hungry.

Exactly!

My presets are "simple". But then I discovered the mastering section in the cab block, e.g. Mic pres with Tape / FET drive and saturation which used to add 10% or more to the CPU in the OG FM3. It was at that point that I wanted more and ordered an FM9.

My presets are still super simple (drive, hi quality reverb, delay, amp, cab; maybe comp or tremelo), but I consider the mic pre essential now.

 

[JiveTurkey]

This is the scene from last night. Somehow the audience refrained from a good ol' fashioned rotten tomato throw because of the FM3's crippled signal chain #humblebrag #they'renottheretoseeusbutI'lltakeit #howcan3switchesbeenough

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

This is the scene from last night. Somehow the audience refrained from a good ol' fashioned rotten tomato throw because of the FM3's crippled signal chain #humblebrag #they'renottheretoseeusbutI'lltakeit #howcan3switchesbeenough
View attachment 22150

They may not be there to see you -- but it seems like maybe the last big-opener you guys did may have made enough of an impression for people to realize it was worth getting there in time. A huge congrats, but realize all I got is three buttons, so appreciate that it may be long and drawn out hold-for-layout-up-functionality to get to the size of congrats I am sending

 

[Achilles]

This is the scene.

Is that Hippietim in the front row?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Where' the fire marshal when you need him?

The Rust Belt?

Yep. Did the Mummies gig. It was a great time \m/

 

[Achilles]

It was a great time \m/

I see your stalker is still at it.
Is the dude band or club security?

 

[JiveTurkey]

I see your stalker is still at it.
Is the dude band or club security?

View attachment 22152

Don't be weird

 

[Achilles]

Don't be weird.

You said it yourself, A good GIF, or meme, or picture is CONTENT!
Seriously though, that is one hell of a cool room for a gig!

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Exactly!

My presets are "simple". But then I discovered the mastering section in the cab block, e.g. Mic pres with Tape / FET drive and saturation which used to add 10% or more to the CPU in the OG FM3. It was at that point that I wanted more and ordered an FM9.

My presets are still super simple (drive, hi quality reverb, delay, amp, cab; maybe comp or tremelo), but I consider the mic pre essential now.

I'm leaning hard towards snagging a III (maaaaaybe FM9) again. Ideally, I would have:

ringmod -> drive 1 -> drive 2 -> delay -> reverb 1 -> tremolo -> amp -> cab -> rotary -> reverb 2

I can pull all of this off using the FM3, but don't have the new springs, and do need to split it up amongst a couple presets and...

...I really should just snag a III...

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'm leaning hard towards snagging a III (maaaaaybe FM9) again. Ideally, I would have:

ringmod -> drive 1 -> drive 2 -> delay -> reverb 1 -> tremolo -> amp -> cab -> rotary -> reverb 2

I can pull all of this off using the FM3, but don't have the new springs, and do need to split it up amongst a couple presets and...

...I really should just snag a III...

You have a 3u slot in that desk I am betting. Use it!