Fractal Audio Systems mystery product speculation

[SpaceMan]

 

[mbenigni]

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next gen Fractal stuff. My point was just that for current Fractal gear, if you don't want to spend the time to make the most of it, maybe a something else would be a better fit.

Agreed.

My guess is that people begging for touch screens aren't going 5 layers deep on amp, cab and FX parameters. But you can correct me if I'm wrong.

I can only speak for myself (but if I did, you'd be wrong LOL.) My personal take is: the deeper you want to edit, the more control elements you want to employ, the more important it is that the UI be efficient.

 

[ian_dissonance]

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next gen Fractal stuff. My point was just that for current Fractal gear, if you don't want to spend the time to make the most of it, maybe a something else would be a better fit.

My guess is that people begging for touch screens aren't going 5 layers deep on amp, cab and FX parameters. But you can correct me if I'm wrong.

Most of the loudest feature shouting in modeling is split evenly between people who would prefer not to have to touch the thing at all aside from picking factory presets that already sound like whatever imaginary thing is in their head and people who don’t even own one but “probably would if they could just figure out XXXX”.

 

[Frodebro]

Most of the loudest feature shouting in modeling is split evenly between people who would prefer not to have to touch the thing at all aside from picking factory presets that already sound like whatever imaginary thing is in their head and people who don’t even own one but “probably would if they could just figure out XXXX”.

And the guy who just can’t stop talking about the superior boot time and latency in the GT-1000.

 

[mbenigni]

Most of the loudest feature shouting in modeling is split evenly between people who would prefer not to have to touch the thing at all aside from picking factory presets that already sound like whatever imaginary thing is in their head and people who don’t even own one but “probably would if they could just figure out XXXX”.

This sounds apocryphal at best. Where is this shouting happening? All I ever read is "presets suck", and I can't imagine anyone failing to "figure out xxxx" on a product they don't own.

 

[Mongillo19]

apocryphal

 

[mbenigni]

Yeah, sorry. I almost went back and deleted that. I go a little too far with the coffee and the 25 cent words start popping out LOL.

 

[paisleywookiee]

(of a story or statement) of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true.

 

[synthpenguin]

I think "Fractal isn't for average guitarists" is weird when the FM3 is priced basically the same as the Helix LT, which plenty of average guitarists buy, and is around the same price as a lot of amps people encourage average guitarists to buy. Or cheaper than buying a few UA pedals. And I mean the Tone Master line's entire market is "average guitarists" and not power users, and whether talking about the Pro or the amps, they're all priced right around or more expensive than the FM3. It's not HX Stomp or Headrush price territory, but the FM3, at the very least, is not priced or sold as a "pros only" or Lamborghini type thing, and that implies that Fractal is interested in that "average" market to some extent... in which case UI is extra important. And if a new FM3 type device has a new "friendlier" interface, touch-based or not, likely the other units would follow suit so that there's some consistency.

I have yet to use a Fractal device (sorry! haha), but the UI doesn't look too bad in videos to me... but I also have a lot of experience programming rackmount stuff and I enjoy programming Yamaha DX synths etc, so I'm a bad judge lol. Still, it seems like a lot of this could be solved with app support, at least as a compromise. I hate using apps for this sort of thing, but if the UA amp pedals are any sign, a lot of people who are more cautious about modeler interfaces are, for some reason, totally fine with apps.

At the same time, it seems like a lot of people say to just use the editor software with Fractal and only use the onboard interface for quick edits anyway, so I don't get what a friendlier or touch-based interface would hurt for power users. Why not put a touchscreen or streamlined non-touch interface on the unit itself, and encourage people to use the software for deeper edits as most people already do? Genuinely asking as a non-user, because it just seems like a universal thing that everyone discourages using the onboard interface for anything more complex than a very simple patch.

 

[timbuck3]

So... don't touch the touchscreen? I mean, sure, it would add a bit of cost, but it wouldn't have to detract from usability or depth in any way whatsoever. People are becoming accustomed to screens being responsive to touch. (Nearly all of us have smartphones in our pockets right now.) There are times when touching an on-screen element to make something happen is simply the most efficient and intuitive thing. (You can actually quantify how efficient and intuitive it would be by counting the fingerprints on my FM3 screen.)

Just because you don't want it doesn't mean it isn't an improvement. I'm willing to bet if it were there you'd use it before too long, and you might even (very quietly) prefer it for some things.

Why would it add to the cost at this point? When so many other modellers at this price point already have a touchscreen? I mean everything goes up in price overtime I guess but look at fender. They just dropped their unit 200 bucks. So either they realise they were overpriced to begin with or they need more sales?

 

[timbuck3]

 

[ian_dissonance]

This sounds apocryphal at best. Where is this shouting happening? All I ever read is "presets suck", and I can't imagine anyone failing to "figure out xxxx" on a product they don't own.

Shouting is obviously hyperbole. And it’s people thinking the hardware makers need to incorporate some random niche feature before they’ll buy, not that person not being able to operate a device they don’t own. Like people who play two shows a year worrying about boot time on a device that is mostly functioning as an audio interface for 99.9% of its life.

 

[timbuck3]

I think "Fractal isn't for average guitarists" is weird when the FM3 is priced basically the same as the Helix LT, which plenty of average guitarists buy, and is around the same price as a lot of amps people encourage average guitarists to buy. Or cheaper than buying a few UA pedals. And I mean the Tone Master line's entire market is "average guitarists" and not power users, and whether talking about the Pro or the amps, they're all priced right around or more expensive than the FM3. It's not HX Stomp or Headrush price territory, but the FM3, at the very least, is not priced or sold as a "pros only" or Lamborghini type thing, and that implies that Fractal is interested in that "average" market to some extent... in which case UI is extra important. And if a new FM3 type device has a new "friendlier" interface, touch-based or not, likely the other units would follow suit so that there's some consistency.

I have yet to use a Fractal device (sorry! haha), but the UI doesn't look too bad in videos to me... but I also have a lot of experience programming rackmount stuff and I enjoy programming Yamaha DX synths etc, so I'm a bad judge lol. Still, it seems like a lot of this could be solved with app support, at least as a compromise. I hate using apps for this sort of thing, but if the UA amp pedals are any sign, a lot of people who are more cautious about modeler interfaces are, for some reason, totally fine with apps.

At the same time, it seems like a lot of people say to just use the editor software with Fractal and only use the onboard interface for quick edits anyway, so I don't get what a friendlier or touch-based interface would hurt for power users. Why not put a touchscreen or streamlined non-touch interface on the unit itself, and encourage people to use the software for deeper edits as most people already do? Genuinely asking as a non-user, because it just seems like a universal thing that everyone discourages using the onboard interface for anything more complex than a very simple patch.

I think it’s kind of late in the game for Cliff to start thinking about touchscreens and implementing them and then charging another what 200 to $400 in the next incarnation.? Also I think the next helix replacement will probably be more expensive than helix and may have a touchscreen but both line 6 and fractal seem to be behind the game when it comes to touch gui. So maybe both those companies will just say no to touchscreens and think outside the box and refuse to submit

 

[TubeStack]

I was anti-touchscreen (on floor units) until I owned the Quad Cortex. Then I realized it’s actually great.

 

[mbenigni]

I think "Fractal isn't for average guitarists" is weird when the FM3 is priced basically the same as the Helix LT, which plenty of average guitarists buy, and is around the same price as a lot of amps people encourage average guitarists to buy. Or cheaper than buying a few UA pedals. And I mean the Tone Master line's entire market is "average guitarists" and not power users, and whether talking about the Pro or the amps, they're all priced right around or more expensive than the FM3. It's not HX Stomp or Headrush price territory, but the FM3, at the very least, is not priced or sold as a "pros only" or Lamborghini type thing, and that implies that Fractal is interested in that "average" market to some extent... in which case UI is extra important. And if a new FM3 type device has a new "friendlier" interface, touch-based or not, likely the other units would follow suit so that there's some consistency.

I have yet to use a Fractal device (sorry! haha), but the UI doesn't look too bad in videos to me... but I also have a lot of experience programming rackmount stuff and I enjoy programming Yamaha DX synths etc, so I'm a bad judge lol. Still, it seems like a lot of this could be solved with app support, at least as a compromise. I hate using apps for this sort of thing, but if the UA amp pedals are any sign, a lot of people who are more cautious about modeler interfaces are, for some reason, totally fine with apps.

At the same time, it seems like a lot of people say to just use the editor software with Fractal and only use the onboard interface for quick edits anyway, so I don't get what a friendlier or touch-based interface would hurt for power users. Why not put a touchscreen or streamlined non-touch interface on the unit itself, and encourage people to use the software for deeper edits as most people already do? Genuinely asking as a non-user, because it just seems like a universal thing that everyone discourages using the onboard interface for anything more complex than a very simple patch.

"Not for average guitarists" as a response to observations about a dated UI is a cop out. I don't think anyone gets so gud/ serious that they suddenly decide they want things to be more difficult. (All else - e.g. tones - being equal.)

As for price... if anything an elevated price tag should free up margins to make UI improvements possible. But you're right: the FM3's price is not exorbitant, and Fractal is more focused on advancing their modeling algorithms.

FWIW: the editor software is fine, provided you're OK with doing all of your editing and housekeeping while wired to a PC.

 

[James Freeman]

The influencer will not tell you how insufferably hot the room gets with 4-5 amps running, nor will they say anything about the electricity bill.
Smells like an undisclosed paid promotion.

 

[mbenigni]

Why would it add to the cost at this point? When so many other modellers at this price point already have a touchscreen? I mean everything goes up in price overtime I guess but look at fender. They just dropped their unit 200 bucks. So either they realise they were overpriced to begin with or they need more sales?

You're not comparing like for like here. Take a bill of materials for an FM3, just as one example. Now remove the old screen, and replace it with a full color touchscreen of the same size. I guarantee you've added cost. (Though how much cost... I have no idea.)

I think it’s kind of late in the game for Cliff to start thinking about touchscreens and implementing them and then charging another what 200 to $400 in the next incarnation.? Also I think the next helix replacement will probably be more expensive than helix and may have a touchscreen but both line 6 and fractal seem to be behind the game when it comes to touch gui. So maybe both those companies will just say no to touchscreens and think outside the box and refuse to submit

EDIT: Oh. Awesome.

 

[timbuck3]

I will say that more than the touchscreen phase. I think the switches that also act as encoders is far more brilliant to put into a model unit even the fractal as it is if it had those encoders on the switches would add probably a lot of pluses.

 

[mbenigni]

 

[JiveTurkey]

I will say that more than the touchscreen phase. I think the switches that also act as encoders is far more brilliant to put into a model unit even the fractal as it is if it had those encoders on the switches would add probably a lot of pluses.

Poo switches for me faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr outweigh a touch screen. Like, by near infinite levels.