Fender Tone Master FR-10 and FR-12 "FRFR" cabs

[fazer]

I think I saw on The Other Place the Fender rep saying they are checking more samples against their "golden" reference models, but they may have deleted that post.

Yeah it looks like that comment has been deleted; I just went and checked. You remembered the phrasing perfectly though!

So it’s probably best to hold off on these for now then.
Thanks.

 

[TubeStack]

All this hiss talk reminds me of the EV ELX112P monitors at my work, which I’ve brought home and tried with the FM3, when I first got it.

They have a very prominent hiss/noise floor, just from being turned on.

 

[aflynt]

I ordered the cover for my FR-12, so I guess I'm keeping it. I played through it again today tweaking some presets on my FM3. It really does sound fantastic.

-Aaron

 

[Stratzrus]

So it’s probably best to hold off on these for now then.
Thanks.

It sounds like they're fine for gigging but may not be ideal for practice in a silent room.

 

[aflynt]

Over on the Fractal forum, a couple people measured the SPL of their FR-12s with tone controls flat, cut off and volume off and got 36db @3’ and 37db @3’ respectively. With the same settings mine is 42db @3’. It seems like maybe there IS a difference in some units? Or maybe I’m just doing it wrong.

-Aaron

EDIT: I was doing it wrong. Downloaded a few different db meter apps and found that the one I was using before was measuring high. I’m now at 38db @3’. Verified using the Decibel:X app on two different iPhones and my iPad.

 

[Jkist7]

Over on the Fractal forum, a couple people measured the SPL of their FR-12s with tone controls flat, cut off and volume off and got 36db @3’ and 37db @3’ respectively. With the same settings mine is 42db @3’. It seems like maybe there IS a difference in some units? Or maybe I’m just doing it wrong.

-Aaron

What are you measuring with? Cell phone SPL meters aren't exactly the most trustworthy. If you are using a cell phone app, make sure to at least use one that self-calibrates against a "silent" room.

 

[aflynt]

What are you measuring with? Cell phone SPL meters aren't exactly the most trustworthy. If you are using a cell phone app, make sure to at least use one that self-calibrates against a "silent" room.

See above. The app I was using measured high. My measurement is now basically in line with the other two.

-Aaron

 

[Lysander]

What are you measuring with? Cell phone SPL meters aren't exactly the most trustworthy.

+1. Take SPL phone app measurements with a (huge) grain of salt.

I don't have a dB meter at hand but, just for shits and giggles, i downloaded a meter app in my phone. At 2ft, the app registered ~30db regardless whether the amp was on or not - and hiss was absolutely noticeable in the room.

 

[laxu]

+1. Take SPL phone app measurements with a (huge) grain of salt.

I don't have a dB meter at hand but, just for shits and giggles, i downloaded a meter app in my phone. At 2ft, the app registered ~30db regardless whether the amp was on or not - and hiss was absolutely noticeable in the room.

This will depend a lot on the app and phone. I compared a cheap real decibel meter vs SPLnFFT app + iPhone 12 Mini. The phone was off by 2 dB at moderate volumes and could be compensated in the app and was then pretty accurate.

Haven't tried what is good for the Android side yet.

 

[Lysander]

This will depend a lot on the app and phone. I compared a cheap real decibel meter vs SPLnFFT app + iPhone 12 Mini. The phone was off by 2 dB at moderate volumes and could be compensated in the app and was then pretty accurate.

Exactly, it's all about calibration. The main problem with phones is that's there's so much hardware variance across models/manufacturers, that without proper calibration measurements will always be off. Specially at low volumes, and when you're trying to measure differences in single-digit dBs.

 

[Lysander]

So what is the story on these? Do they have a design fault leading to the extra hiss some have been complaining about or not? And is the hiss present on the 10” version as well as the 12”? Does anyone know?

People seem to be split between "it's very noisy" and "doesn't bother me one bit", so i'd say totally give it a go - but, buy somewhere with a good return policy, just in case. Being a Fender product available pretty much anywhere, this should not be a problem.

Again, and as many others have noted: noise aside, the FR-12 sounds great, and pairs beautifully with modelers. There'a fullness to it that i haven't been able to get elsewhere, and i think it's mostly due to the fact that's built like a "real" combo cab. Down to the (otherwise linear) preamp section, which looks like something out of a 1990s solid state guitar amp.

It's light, sturdy, good looking and great sounding; i just wish it was quieter thou. Guess i'm spoiled coming from a Powercab 112, which is a great sound "FRFR" on its own right, and has a very low noise floor. You could not tell the thing was on without looking at the back panel LEDs.

 

[Raban624]

Love this thread and so glad there’s a discussion on this! I’ve had the FR12 for a couple of weeks now and definitely have the hiss but this unit sounded so great out of the box with my L6 Pod Go i threw my L6 Powercab up on Reverb and it sold in short order and now I’ve got both buyers and sellers remorse at the same time. I also have the FR10 arriving this week so I could compare and contrast output, sound and of course hiss level.

I play in-home in very quiet music room.. db dead quiet is 31 using dB Meter app/iPhone (uncalibrated) measured 9ft (playing distance) from the amp. With FR12 turned on the reading is 33. Crazy I can hear that hiss at just 2db increase.

BTW… FR Hiss 2 feet from unit reads 36db so really a db increase by 5.

Bottom line:
The FR12 beat out my L6 PC of 3 years sound wise and I was perfectly content with the PC and getting very good sound (and zero hiss). The FR12 made me realize it wasn’t great sound. So the FR12 is a keeper, maybe the FR10 is quieter and trumps it (thank you GC for 45 day return policy). I really can’t hear the hiss when playing so the trade off is best I’ve heard my modeling reproduced for tiny bit of hiss. My hope is Fender owns the issue and offers a retro fix of some sort or swap out. It’s obviously mechanical so nothing any type of firmware update can correct.

I’ll report back FR12 vs FR10 results/measures by weekend.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Love this thread and so glad there’s a discussion on this! I’ve had the FR12 for a couple of weeks now and definitely have the hiss but this unit sounded so great out of the box with my L6 Pod Go i threw my L6 Powercab up on Reverb and it sold in short order and now I’ve got both buyers and sellers remorse at the same time. I also have the FR10 arriving this week so I could compare and contrast output, sound and of course hiss level.

I play in-home in very quiet music room.. db dead quiet is 31 using dB Meter app/iPhone (uncalibrated) measured 9ft (playing distance) from the amp. With FR12 turned on the reading is 33. Crazy I can hear that hiss at just 2db increase.

BTW… FR Hiss 2 feet from unit reads 36db so really a db increase by 5.

Bottom line:
The FR12 beat out my L6 PC of 3 years sound wise and I was perfectly content with the PC and getting very good sound (and zero hiss). The FR12 made me realize it wasn’t great sound. So the FR12 is a keeper, maybe the FR10 is quieter and trumps it (thank you GC for 45 day return policy). I really can’t hear the hiss when playing so the trade off is best I’ve heard my modeling reproduced for tiny bit of hiss. My hope is Fender owns the issue and offers a retro fix of some sort or swap out. It’s obviously mechanical so nothing any type of firmware update can correct.

I’ll report back FR12 vs FR10 results/measures by weekend.

My concern is that it’ll be fixed in “Tonemaster FR12 MkII”.

 

[aflynt]

My concern is that it’ll be fixed in “Tonemaster FR12 MkII”.

My concern is that the fix will make it sound like garbage.

-Aaron

 

[paisleywookiee]

My concern is that the fix will make it sound like garbage.

-Aaron

Or that.

 

[laxu]

So who's gonna take a stab at "fine, I'll build my own preamp for it, with blackjack and hookers!" ?

 

[Lysander]

So who's gonna take a stab at "fine, I'll build my own preamp for it, with blackjack and hookers!" ?

Don't push me. I'm really tempted to crack open mine again, trace the preamp schematic, and try to fix the noise level

 

[laxu]

Don't push me. I'm really tempted to crack open mine again, trace the preamp schematic, and try to fix the noise level

This is the origin story of a lot of projects...

 

[jellodog]

I think Keeley started off this way! (modding)

 

[marsonic]

Don't push me. I'm really tempted to crack open mine again, trace the preamp schematic, and try to fix the noise level

I support this idea. Especially if it winds up a simple fix....though there's no way to know that without putting in the work.