Fender Tone Master FR-10 and FR-12 "FRFR" cabs

[JiveTurkey]

It's damn good

 

[Lysander]

You and that WKSmith guy should do a superhero team up. Wonder Twins......Activate!

I actually been exchanging messages with WKSmith about the FR-12 over the last couple days

So, the bad news is that noise just is inherent to the way the preamp was designed. This is not something that can be fixed with an extra wire, or a resistor mod

The preamp is essentially a chain of about a dozen different gain stages, mostly used to implement the active EQ section - simultaneously super simple, and needlesly complicated. The problem with this approach is that each stage amplifies the previous one, so noise quickly adds up; the ICs used (RC4558 and TL084) are technically "low noise", but they're several times noisier than modern, better quality alternatives.

The only hope to tame the noise in this beast is to switch all preamp opamp ICs for very low noise alternatives, and pray for the best. Best solution i can come up with, short of redesigning the board.

So, i've already ordered a few high performance, low noise parts (OPA2134 and OPA1654) to re-chip my FR-12 and see what it does for the hiss. Will take a while to be delivered, but i'll get to work and report once the mod is complete.

My expectation is a significant improvement, but make no mistake, this will never be one of those "...is this thing turned on?" FRFRs.

 

[CBHScott]

I am positive I am getting a FR-10.

Now I just need a modeler to go with it.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I am positive I am getting a FR-10.

Now I just need a modeler to go with it.

 

[CBHScott]

I am positive I am getting a FR-10.

Now I just need a modeler to go with it.

SW had a demo for $425…but not anymore…

 

[aflynt]

I've been comparing the EV PXM12-MP with the FR-12 using my Tele and nothing but a clean preamp in front of them (FM3 with only input and output blocks connected). It's interesting. I can get the overall frequency response similar by adjusting the FR-12 controls, but the Fender still has this slightly more guitar amp like, mildly compressed kind of feel and sound to it. Less of that sterile solid state kind of high end and more of that tube-like fat high end. Which isn't to say that the EV sounds sterile. It's actually pretty nice sounding too, but in a more hi-fi kind of way. Sorry, it's really hard to describe in words without sounding like an ad for some crazy audiophile device.

-Aaron

 

[marsonic]

The only hope to tame the noise in this beast is to switch all preamp opamp ICs for very low noise alternatives, and hope for the best. Best solution i can come up with, short of redesigning the board.

....or bypassing the tone stack entirely, I'd imagine.

We've got noise-free EQs in basically every modeler anyway.

 

[Lysander]

....or bypassing the tone stack entirely, I'd imagine.

Yep. But then again, you're left with no EQ which i think is really useful on the FR-12.

The preamp can be modded in many ways; i'm personally just interested in killing noise as much as humanly possible. I really like the amp otherwise.

 

[marsonic]

Yep. But then again, you're left with no EQ which i think is really useful on the FR-12.

We've got noise-free EQs in basically every modeler anyway.

I mean...yes, for dialing it into the room and not affecting FOH, depending on which modeler and how you want to use your outputs. But...it seems like the utility is probably not worth the noise.

 

[aflynt]

My question is ‘how much does this preamp color the sound?’ Is it actually doing some tone shaping when set flat, and how much of what makes this sound so good is in the preamp itself?

-Aaron

 

[Lysander]

My question is ‘how much does this preamp color the sound?’ Is it actually doing some tone shaping when set flat, and how much of what makes this sound so good is in the preamp itself?

There's definitely a bit of that, as the EQ is not quite linear even at neutral settings.

I just find the EQ to be very useful and, as noted, it appears to have been tailored specifically for the cab and speaker - which i reckon accounts for most of the amp's sound.

 

[la szum]

I've been comparing the EV PXM12-MP with the FR-12 using my Tele and nothing but a clean preamp in front of them (FM3 with only input and output blocks connected). It's interesting. I can get the overall frequency response similar by adjusting the FR-12 controls, but the Fender still has this slightly more guitar amp like, mildly compressed kind of feel and sound to it. Less of that sterile solid state kind of high end and more of that tube-like fat high end. Which isn't to say that the EV sounds sterile. It's actually pretty nice sounding too, but in a more hi-fi kind of way. Sorry, it's really hard to describe in words without sounding like an ad for some crazy audiophile device.

-Aaron

Makes me wonder if some of that is partly the result of different cabs---meaning, design, materials, and speaker
configuration within the different cabs? The Fender seems very guitar cab like, unlike the EV.

 

[aflynt]

Makes me wonder if some of that is partly the result of different cabs---meaning, design, materials, and speaker
configuration within the different cabs? The Fender seems very guitar cab like, unlike the EV.

Seems likely to me, but who knows. They both sound way better than the Altos and Headrushes and other plastic speakers I've tried. The both have a nice warmth to them, but the Fender has the midrange in a more satisfying place for guitar. I set up my FM3 to have the FR-12 on alone in one scene and the PXM12-MP on in another so that I could quickly flip back and forth. I noticed that the midrange shifted down slightly when I held a chord and switched to the EV.

-Aaron

 

[Foxmeister]

The Fender seems very guitar cab like, unlike the EV.

Part of it may well be psychosomatic because it *look* like an amp, but to me it certainly does *feel* more like an amp than other "FRFR" solutions.

 

[Lysander]

The only hope to tame the noise in this beast is to switch all preamp opamp ICs for very low noise alternatives, and pray for the best. Best solution i can come up with, short of redesigning the board.

WKSmith reports that bypassing the EQ section in the FR-12 completely eliminates hiss so, yeah, theory confirmed.

 

[CBHScott]

Part of it may well be psychosomatic because it *look* like an amp, but to me it certainly does *feel* more like an amp than other "FRFR" solutions.

I was able to briefly try one today with a TMP, and the FR-10 is really, really good.

 

[Stone]

 

[paisleywookiee]

I think I’m going to either try the Laney LFR112, or wait to see if Mesa Boogie comes out with one.

 

[marsonic]

WKSmith reports that bypassing the EQ section in the FR-12 completely eliminates hiss so, yeah, theory confirmed.

Awesome. I wonder what it sounds like....

 

[mbenigni]

And, other companies have been marketing the same way, for many decades now. Tis nothing new.

“Peak”

Always take wattage ratings with a serious grain of salt.