Lysander
Rock Star
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Yes.
Fender Tone Master FR-10 and FR-12 FRFR cabs
- Thread starter Lysander
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Yes.
Chocol8
Shredder
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Sustained RMS vs peak though.
Lysander
Rock Star
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Sustained; "peak" really has no meaning in the realm of power audio amplifiers.
Both the FR-10 and FR-12 use a Class-D power amp capable of 150W into 8 Ohms, plus a couple extra Watts for the bi-amped tweeter output. Fender's "1000W" claim was always an outright lie.
The power amp section can actually handle up to 300W, but that's on a 4 Ohms load.
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Not sure this is true based upon parts costs. Seems like a design issue.
The original design used far more opamp stages than were needed ... and this just magnified the noise. One fix to this was to use more expensive op amps, but that was a band-aid after the fact.
Chocol8
Shredder
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That's what allows Fender to call it 1000w, and many other companies have been doing the same for years. Even RMS ratings for class D amps tend to leave out thermal limits. If you are lucky you can find detailed specs for the module like those published for IcePower boards, but usually the published power ratings are useless.
Lysander
Rock Star
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Yeah, it's called "making shit up"
If Fender decides to start slapping 8000 Watts PMPO stickers on their amplifiers, so be it.
Chocol8
Shredder
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Yeah, it's called "making shit up"
They are selling to guitarists, and we as a group are a rather stupid and gullible bunch! That said, I am sure someone at Kustom or whoever made the board ran some test where they got 1000w out of it for a fraction of a millisecond so they have some defense against false advertising.
Lysander
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What pisses me off is that the power amp section of the FR-10/12 is actually really good quality, AND clearly labeled with (real) specs.
Make no mistake, marketing these amps as 1000 Wats is a lie - there's no other way to qualify it. FR-10/12s are loud AF... but put out 15% of the advertised power.
JiveTurkey
Goatlord
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Fender = ScumWhat pisses me off is that the power amp section of the FR-10/12 is actually really good quality, AND clearly labeled with (real) specs.
Make no mistake, marketing these amps as 1000 Wats is a lie - there's no other way to qualify it. FR-10/12s are loud AF... but put out 15% of the advertised power.
ucnick
Roadie
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I figured it was probably around 150 or 160 watts based upon my rule of thumb for estimating continuous power for a class D power amp, which is 1/6th the stated power, which is based upon an article I read years ago that calculated the actual continuous power using a Gaussian curve or something along those lines, so that's in the ballpark at 16.7%. But I'll be darned if I can recall where or when I read it.What pisses me off is that the power amp section of the FR-10/12 is actually really good quality, AND clearly labeled with (real) specs.
Make no mistake, marketing these amps as 1000 Wats is a lie - there's no other way to qualify it. FR-10/12s are loud AF... but put out 15% of the advertised power.
The 10 and 12 are both plenty loud for my use cases: classic and hard rock, blues, country, a little faux jazz. Haven't had any problems being heard. Quite the opposite as a matter of fact.
paisleywookiee
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What pisses me off is that the power amp section of the FR-10/12 is actually really good quality, AND clearly labeled with (real) specs.
Make no mistake, marketing these amps as 1000 Wats is a lie - there's no other way to qualify it. FR-10/12s are loud AF... but put out 15% of the advertised power.
I wonder if the FR-212 runs at the full 350w at 4ohm then, if it’s two 8ohm speakers.
Lysander
Rock Star
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Likely so, though i've never seen a FR-212 in real life to confirm.
Note that even with an extra 12" speaker in parallel, the FR-212 is not much louder than the vanilla FR-10/12s. Fender quotes a max SPL of 133 dB for the FR-212, vs 130 dB for the FR-10/12.
ian_dissonance
Shredder
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The difference isn’t really in volume, but you can definitely get more thump out of the 212.
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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That’s way too fucking loud either way.
ian_dissonance
Shredder
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I run the 12 a little over half way with my metal band and it keeps up pretty well.
jay mitchell
Roadie
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Both numbers are delusional. Best case, an FR10/12 will generate ca. 117 dBSPL @ 1 meter, and it will be clipping constantly at that level. IOW, not clean by a long shot.
If your judgement is that one of those speakers is "loud enough," then you don't need more than ~105-108 dBSPL clean. FYI, that's hearing-damage loud.
Lysander
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Yeah, not saying these numbers are realistic (133dB is a jet fighter taking off right next to you...), only that by Fender's own admission, both the 1x12" and 2x12" are comparably loud.
Chocol8
Shredder
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I am curious to measure it myself. The Archangel guy claims it is louder with the upgraded pre-amp and measured 126 db which is a significant 4db less than Fender’s numbers but still extremely high.
How did you come up with the 117 figure? Do you know the sensitivity of the drivers used, or did you measure one?
JiveTurkey
Goatlord
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