Dynamics..

[Lysander]

Slew rate is an electronic thing right? When a component goes from minimum to maximum resistance or capicitance, or something like that??

It's how fast an unit of something (voltage, most of the time) can change within a circuit.

For most things audio, and specially guitar amps, slew rate is rarely, if ever, a consideration. It's very easy to cope with audio signals when those cap off at 21 KHz or so.

 

[jay mitchell]

Slew rate is an electronic thing right?

See Slew Rate.

 

[laxu]

He will be the first one to tell you the video is more of a way to share his opinion/findings rather than being a high quality recording to actually draw any kind of conclusion from. I really find odd how quickly and how shallow of a an argument you can make to dismiss the opinions of a player of his caliber, with his experience, making a living with both in the most demanding environment possible for decades.

The person setting them up also have their biases.

The point is, if he's going to compare two reverbs and can't even level match them, then how much of a tone expert is he?

I acknowledge he's a player way, way more experienced than I am, and can respect learning from him about playing. But just because of that I don't put him on a pedestal as an expert on all things guitar, or believe he has golden ears.

Nor should you interpret this as me saying I am the expert. I am not.

Setting up measuring is a matter of setting it up to measure the right things and understanding the results. There's no bias involved.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

The point is, if he's going to compare two reverbs and can't even level match them, then how much of a tone expert is he?

I acknowledge he's a player way, way more experienced than I am, and can respect learning from him about playing. But just because of that I don't put him on a pedestal as an expert on all things guitar, or believe he has golden ears.

Nor should you interpret this as me saying I am the expert. I am not.

Setting up measuring is a matter of setting it up to measure the right things and understanding the results. There's no bias involved.

From his perspective he’s simply showing someone that the sky is blue, not brown. Of course he doesn’t feel the need to make sure you are using a color calibrated monitor for that purpose.

 

[the-trooper]

I think a lot of the problem in this discussions is the lack of a common standard. We often are not talking about the same thing.

Tell me about it. Event though I explained exactly what dynamics is, everyone in here talking about toan, reverb, amp transformers, cleaning up, vacuuming, spring equinox, tree pruning, flat feet insoles, ToUcH sEnSiTiViTy.

Dynamics (music) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Uncle larry...

When I can't play at night and doing some stuff around the living room while everybody is a sleep, he is my youtube friend.

One thing what took away most of my GAS (eventho I am super interested in all this stuff) is where he said something about how modelers just are not the real thing, he was talking about a Fender Mustang (or something?) based on a question from one of his followers.

His best advice came after that where he said that it just doesn't matter. At beginner and intermediate level... the amp is just there to amplify the sound. Thats all. No need to worry about all that shit.

So yeah.. I failed with starting this thread. I know.

 

[Tito83]

The point is, if he's going to compare two reverbs and can't even level match them, then how much of a tone expert is he?

I acknowledge he's a player way, way more experienced than I am, and can respect learning from him about playing. But just because of that I don't put him on a pedestal as an expert on all things guitar, or believe he has golden ears.

Nor should you interpret this as me saying I am the expert. I am not.

Setting up measuring is a matter of setting it up to measure the right things and understanding the results. There's no bias involved.

I won't bother to find, but there's a video where he is a/b'ing pedals and when the first thing when he notices the levels are not matched he promptly says is "fix it".

There's no pedestal, there's just the factual realization he is probably one of the best qualified to do something like this.

The measurements are interpreted, what is measured and what is not is decided by someone. Also the implementation is done by a person which is prone to mistakes. Someone like Tom Bukovac would be able to catch a tone difference that was relevant and leave the engineer to figure out how to fix/improve it. Which IMO is why UA are the best models currently.

 

[Frodebro]

Uncle larry...

When I can't play at night and doing some stuff around the living room while everybody is a sleep, he is my youtube friend.

One thing what took away most of my GAS (eventho I am super interested in all this stuff) is where he said something about how modelers just are not the real thing, he was talking about a Fender Mustang (or something?) based on a question from one of his followers.

His best advice came after that where he said that it just doesn't matter. At beginner and intermediate level... the amp is just there to amplify the sound. Thats all. No need to worry about all that shit.

So yeah.. I failed with starting this thread. I know.

Well, the Mustang is three generations back for Fender, and Fender is not exactly on the forefront of the technology currently, so he’s basing at least part of his opinion on old tech. With a helping of emotional bias and likely promotional considerations…

 

[Tito83]

To an extent. @Fractal Audio and @James Freeman can probably butt heads over bright cap values all day, and whether certain Marshalls from the 70's should have them or not.

But generally, no. The aim in modelling an amp is to get the digital model to be 1:1 with the real thing. If the test doesn't pass, then the model isn't accurate.

I don't think I said anything different. And if the aim is to copy, I don't think it matters if the amp has a bright cap or not.

Sorry, I mean development test conditions - ie; what Cliff does to confirm that his model of the amp matches the real one. I don't know what those are, which is why I genericized it.

I don't disagree with you btw - for me, this is why I have the GigRig G3. It allows these kinds of A/B comparisons in a very fair way.

Nothing to do with external non-company comparisons. Because Worship Tutorials comparing their Friedman amp to the modelled one is not a valid test, because it isn't the exact same amp.

Whatever he does he is always putting out updates. Which is commendable, but also makes it painfully obvious his process is far from perfect.

The interview was inside L6's headquarters and the comparison was set up by the people at L6.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Well, the Mustang is three generations back for Fender, and Fender is not exactly on the forefront of the technology currently, so he’s basing at least part of his opinion on old tech. With a helping of emotional bias and likely promotional considerations…

Yep, thats why I mentioned that. He is not bashing on anything which one of us has.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I won't bother to find, but there's a video where he is a/b'ing pedals and when the first thing when he notices the levels are not matched he promptly says is "fix it".

There's no pedestal, there's just the factual realization he is probably one of the best qualified to do something like this.

The measurements are interpreted, what is measured and what is not is decided by someone. Also the implementation is done by a person which is prone to mistakes. Someone like Tom Bukovac would be able to catch a tone difference that was relevant and leave the engineer to figure out how to fix/improve it. Which IMO is why UA are the best models currently.

this one?

 

[Sleezy E]

What? Next you gonna tell me I should not follow whats going on in NJ and there is not an alien base under water with Octopuses as their leader?

Our Octopi Overlords are absolutely real and they're always listening but try and take "online" gear knowledge with a grain of salt

..unless it's from here, of course.. or the Octopi told you.

 

[Frodebro]

Yep, thats why I mentioned that. He is not bashing on anything which one of us has.

An awful lot of people that bash on modelers are basing their opinions on a watched YouTube video or a five minute test drive at Guitar Center five or ten years ago, very few of the anti digital Karens have had much time on a modern, higher end unit. And even trying out a Helix in a store for five minutes is not going to give you a realistic concept of what the tech can do.

 

[woody]

The point is, if he's going to compare two reverbs and can't even level match them, then how much of a tone expert is he?

I acknowledge he's a player way, way more experienced than I am, and can respect learning from him about playing. But just because of that I don't put him on a pedestal as an expert on all things guitar, or believe he has golden ears.

Nor should you interpret this as me saying I am the expert. I am not.

Setting up measuring is a matter of setting it up to measure the right things and understanding the results. There's no bias involved.

I'm a bit on the fence with this.
I understand that manufacturers and modelling companies have the need for measuring and blind a/b testing and all that jazz.

Bukovac is a musician first, though, and his thing is about getting emotional reactions from a listener.
Making people bop heads and shake their fists.
I'm not sure that he'd even agree on even attempting to measure anything. It's entirely subjective.
His whole thing is being subjective and being genuine in his taste.
That's what he gets booked for.

In many gear comparisons this totally gets ignored.
Yes, I can dial a lot of thing to sound similar. But which piece of gear lets me arrive at an inspiring tone the fastest? Which piece of gear makes me bop my head and makes me make guitar faces while playing?
Totally underrated question, imo.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Slew rate is an electronic thing right? When a component goes from minimum to maximum resistance or capicitance, or something like that??

I'm not quite sure what Ed is getting at with this tbh.

From wiki

As I said in my initial post the power section is part of this.
As is the front end of the amp.

That’s the difference in a Hiwatt vs a Tweed Bassman
Or in modern amps between a Pitbull and a Tweed anything.

 

[Diary Of An Axeman]

Tube vs Modelers....

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Tube vs Modelers....

View attachment 35727

So the tube is laying on the ground right?

 

[the swede]

you can put me on ignore if you really dislike the feeling you are getting :)

No way I’d do that! Threads like these are my best poo after coffee reading.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

No way I’d do that! Threads like these are my best poo after coffee reading.

We just bought a new one, Jura Ena 8. All of a sudden I drink a lot more.

I poo the same.

 

[Cirrus]

Lots of things have already been said. Have I read them all? No.

On digital itself: There's no issue of dynamics or response in a pure A-D and D-A passthrough. Digital 1s and 0s can *perfectly* reproduce any signal we can hear with our ears. There might be a slightly perceptible "box tone" which is imparted by the analogue parts of the converters - basically the op-amps - but that's minor and no impediment to dynamics, and the same is true of anything you put in the signal chain.

Everything that we hear as "digital" is about what a programmer has done. That's the limiting factor - how well has the team that made the model captured the thing they're modelling? That's what we'll argue about 'til the cows come home. On a basic level, I think basically any decent model can respond and clean up excellently. When I've used models of amps I have experience of, I usually feel like they don't always capture the way the frequency balance changes at volume, when they saturate. Usually the low end feels kinda lumpy, if I have any complaint.