deadpool_25
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In general I think the Fractal stuff and QC both handle dynamics very well. Probably as well as tube amps or at least well enough that differences would be insignificant for most people.
Dynamics..
- Thread starter mercifulfuzziness
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James Freeman
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Some modelers and even individual models in the same modeler are more accurate than others.
From personal experience I say, yes, there is a difference in dynamics, non-linearities and other nuances between real tube amps and their models, but things are getting better with every update in the top modelers.
Present!
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Eagle
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It’s not about whether it cleans up when you roll the volume, digital has that now. It is about the degree of sensitivity and variation in the sensitivity that you can feel. Add latency and compression that most modelling devices have and you have a distinct difference . Also a tube amp with a bunch of digital effects in the signal is going to be even closer to the modelling system.
If you plug directly in to a fender style tube amp on the edge of breakup you can feel the difference easily but as you add gain and fx to the signal path it gets less and less noticeable. It about pleasing yourself because sounds good is good end of.
If you plug directly in to a fender style tube amp on the edge of breakup you can feel the difference easily but as you add gain and fx to the signal path it gets less and less noticeable. It about pleasing yourself because sounds good is good end of.
mercifulfuzziness
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Do you also notice these on low volumes?
So let’s say a real Fender Princeton on volume 2 versus the modeler version of a Princeton on break up?
Eagle
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Yes it’s pretty easy. If the modeller is in to an "FRFR" even easier. "FRFR" is different feeling as well.
mercifulfuzziness
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And would that matter for the development of your skill?
Eagle
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Not in the slightest but you may enjoy playing through a great amp more though. I certainly do.
metropolis_4
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There is a difference in feel and response. I will say this: when I’m using digital I tend to need more “gain stages” to get the different shades of drive I need. When I’m using tube amps and pedals I find I need far less between my guitar and amp to get what I need.
Where I might have 3 drive pedals in front of a digital amp, I’ll find I only need one with a tube amp.
Where I might have 3 drive pedals in front of a digital amp, I’ll find I only need one with a tube amp.
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I think that's a good point. I know with some of the helix models like the super reverb, I like having a pre boost and/or a compressor always on to liven up the signal more. If not, it would feel a bit flat. It's not needed with every model though.
the swede
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You and shredder… you guys are so full of questions and conundrums it makes me nervous. I’m like the old quiet dude that doesn’t like a crowd and when you guys are everywhere goofing around I feel like an old fart… wich I am!
Hmmpf, pfft, tssk…. All these questions and riddles… curious…. Blahh
just joking with ya…
jay mitchell
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Arguments about needing "too many" added processing blocks to get your sounds fall flat when you realize that a modeler is a box you plug your guitar into that produces an electrical signal that is then amplified and converted to sound.
If you are successful in dialing your modeler, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether you had to add gain stages to the amp block; you're still only playing through one box.
If you are not successful in dialing in your modeler, you get to decide whether to continue trying to dial it in or abandon the effort and use something else instead. Telling other folks what they can or cannot do is nothing but wasted typing. It was wearisome when it first began 20+ years ago. It is no less so now.
Threads like this - there are two other active ones at present - really belong in the "Gear Rants" forum. They contain no useful information for folks who are perusing the "Digital & Modeling" section.
If you are successful in dialing your modeler, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether you had to add gain stages to the amp block; you're still only playing through one box.
If you are not successful in dialing in your modeler, you get to decide whether to continue trying to dial it in or abandon the effort and use something else instead. Telling other folks what they can or cannot do is nothing but wasted typing. It was wearisome when it first began 20+ years ago. It is no less so now.
Threads like this - there are two other active ones at present - really belong in the "Gear Rants" forum. They contain no useful information for folks who are perusing the "Digital & Modeling" section.
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mercifulfuzziness
Shredder
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Haha man, and you don’t even live with me 24/7.
you can put me on ignore if you really dislike the feeling you are getting :)
mercifulfuzziness
Shredder
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Im sorry you feel that way.
Ed DeGenaro
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While you’re posting,here’s one thing I been wondering but can’t get a straight answer or figure it out.
You might know.
The “feel” of an amp for me is governed by input and power stage.
Power stage for compression and input for slew rate.
Let’s forget about the power section.
So the slew rate or slope of the initial attack from silence to peak on a modeller would be governed by the input.
So until some one puts a way to model this for all the amp sims inside it’ll be same-y. Same with plugins it’d be governed by the sound cards input.
Or did I miss a memo
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Not everybody has a tweaker's mind though. Some guys need a bit more insight or guidance with technical things. Not every model or real amp for that matter is plug and play ready for everyone. There's nothing wrong with someone being curious to what others are doing.
jay mitchell
Roadie
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You're using the term "slew rate" in a non-engineering way. Slew rate is a large signal parameter that would not be applicable to the input of a tube amp, since a guitar signal won't drive the input stage into slew-rate limiting. I believe what you're talking about is the transient response of an amp's input.
Slew-rate limiting could have an effect in the PI stage, as the grid capacitances of power tubes are high enough that charging/discharging them might tax the ability of a typical PI circuit to source/sink the necessary current. If this is the case, negative feedback would make the effect more prominent.
Now you're talking about the signal envelope, which isn't the same as the rise time of a circuit. In order for this to be audible as something other than clipping, it would have to have a time constant of ca. 10ms or longer.
Unless the input circuitry in a modeler imposes limits on the relevant parameters that are less than those imposed by a vacuum tube - which never has to be the case - the accuracy of all of these effects is still down to coding the DSP.
metropolis_4
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It does make a difference when you’re playing live - more stuff to configure/dial in, set up footswitching for, and more tap dancing
Jarick
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I would ask the question, does it matter what the tube amp does if the modeler is dynamic enough for your playing?
I've done a lot of modeler shootout clips...here's a comparison of some of them using the same direct track, all with a Marshall Plexi model. Using the guitar volume knob to go from clean to high gain. I don't know what the tube amp would be doing that is somehow more dynamic. Unless it's supposed to be less dynamic?
I've done a lot of modeler shootout clips...here's a comparison of some of them using the same direct track, all with a Marshall Plexi model. Using the guitar volume knob to go from clean to high gain. I don't know what the tube amp would be doing that is somehow more dynamic. Unless it's supposed to be less dynamic?
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