Dynamics..

[mercifulfuzziness]

I've firmly adjusted to thinking more about "What's good enough? Does this work for me?"

There's a lot of digital guitar gear on the market that is not perfect, but is more than good enough, without paying the big bucks. This is stuff that you could use to play any gig and you'd be happy with what you're getting, even if you know it's not quite as good as the best things out there.

Then there's all our favorite top dogs, and each of them have their own compromises, mostly in areas other than sound.

Sometimes the good old tube amp + a few pedals is the gear that is "good enough". No, it won't turn into any amp out there at the push of a button, or do any effect out there in full stereo, but if you like say Marshalls the most, do you really need Fenders or Voxes?

Some want an Audi , others are okay with Skoda

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I've firmly adjusted to thinking more about "What's good enough? Does this work for me?"

There's a lot of digital guitar gear on the market that is not perfect, but is more than good enough, without paying the big bucks. This is stuff that you could use to play any gig and you'd be happy with what you're getting, even if you know it's not quite as good as the best things out there.

Then there's all our favorite top dogs, and each of them have their own compromises, mostly in areas other than sound.

Sometimes the good old tube amp + a few pedals is the gear that is "good enough". No, it won't turn into any amp out there at the push of a button, or do any effect out there in full stereo, but if you like say Marshalls the most, do you really need Fenders or Voxes?

I dunno - “good enough” is a REALLY low bar for the playing I do. It needs to be good enough to make me happy, and I’ve explored enough to figure out what does and doesn’t lead to a happier place and, just as important, a better intuition about what MAY lead me to a happier place and what is likely not to.

 

[0XI0]

This is an absolute bunch of nonsense and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what a time constant is.

thanks for saying that buddy

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I dunno - “good enough” is a REALLY low bar for the playing I do. It needs to be good enough to make me happy, and I’ve explored enough to figure out what does and doesn’t lead to a happier place and, just as important, a better intuition about what MAY lead me to a happier place and what is likely not to.

And what is that for you?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

And what is that for you?

Teles and ES-variants; AxeFx III; ceramic speakers; pure nickel strings; Logic; thick ass picks; blah blah blah.

 

[la szum]

 

[Sascha Franck]

well, you know the buzz that sits on top of the rectifier tone, or a morin marshall... that buzz is offset from the fundamental via a latency, that's how it can be mono and still sound 3D. there's a necessary latency inside of individual gain stages controlled by capacitance values, that controls how fast or slow the gain stages are able to react to their part of the signal. in DSP land if they are all the same time constant it's flat. oscillators in simulation won't oscillate until you bump them a little bit to be "not perfect". when you stretch the gain stages time constants all out to be different, the end result harmonics literally "bloom" at the output

Dude... I mean, seriously, dude...

 

[Sleezy E]

 

[GuitarBilly74]

I don't have an issue with dynamics with digital, seems to work fine. Obviously, if you put a noise gate on your preset, it will affect dynamics, but the same would happen with a noise gate on your amp. I see a lot of people complaining about the dynamics on their modeler and when you look at their preset, sure enough...it's gated.

I still notice something off with digital when playing along with other analog/acoustic instruments like a bass rig and a drum kit. I don't know why but I notice it.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Dynamics
Compressed
Squashed
Volume
Gain
What’s going on here ?
What is or isn’t happening in this clip ?

what's happening in this clip is one of the best rock guitar players of all time. Most people won't sound like that even if they plug into his rig.

This is a bit like thinking buying a pair of Nikes will make you dunk like Michael Jordan.

 

[JasonE]

I got my FM9 as one of the first batch they sold. Version 1 of the firmware had horrible dynamics to it IMHO. I was comparing it to real amps I own and it wasn't even close. As the versions of firmware kept coming out it kept moving in the right direction. I had people telling me of different parameters I needed to adjust to get it closer to the amp. I feel that for the money these things cost, I shouldn't have to know all of the deep parameters to get the dynamics in a similar zone to the real amp. The last couple of firmware versions that I installed really made some great strides in the dynamics area. It isn't exactly like the real deal amp but it is much more usable than it started out being. I am a player that rides the volume knob a lot and I play every tone from sparkling clean to the higher end of medium gain so the dynamic aspect is something I utilize constantly.

 

[Jarick]

I got my FM9 as one of the first batch they sold. Version 1 of the firmware had horrible dynamics to it IMHO. I was comparing it to real amps I own and it wasn't even close. As the versions of firmware kept coming out it kept moving in the right direction. I had people telling me of different parameters I needed to adjust to get it closer to the amp. I feel that for the money these things cost, I shouldn't have to know all of the deep parameters to get the dynamics in a similar zone to the real amp. The last couple of firmware versions that I installed really made some great strides in the dynamics area. It isn't exactly like the real deal amp but it is much more usable than it started out being. I am a player that rides the volume knob a lot and I play every tone from sparkling clean to the higher end of medium gain so the dynamic aspect is something I utilize constantly.

What amp models were you using and what amps were you comparing it to?

 

[JasonE]

What amp models were you using and what amps were you comparing it to?

The 2 Dirty Shirley models in the FM9 and comparing it to a real Friedman Twin Sister with the DS 112 cabinet with a Creamback 65 in it was my main comparison point. I spent a lot of time with those.

 

[Lysander]

there's a necessary latency inside of individual gain stages controlled by capacitance values, that controls how fast or slow the gain stages are able to react to their part of the signal.

Dude.

 

[0XI0]

Dude.

i guess you know LT spice has time constant adjustment for capacitors to accommodate the various different material types used in capacitor construction. same value different material = different sound. that's time constant variation. I love it when the learned straight come out the trailer with sticks, this is fun. I know where dynamics come from i just can't %@$#$@ code yet

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I saw that bit earlier. It doesn't address what you're talking about. The "slew rate" of a portamento function in a synth has nothing to do with the rise time of a preamp circuit. The rise time of any audio input buffer - tube preamps included - is so short that it is imperceptible. If you're saying that there's a perceivable lag between when you strike the strings and when the note(s) reach full magnitude, then you can't be talking about the behaviors of any useable input circuit.

Again: when you say an amp is "fast" or "slow," exactly what do you mean? And exactly which filters do you modify to make one into the other? I'm sincerely trying to grasp what you're talking about. I will sometimes characterize amps as "hard" or "soft" and varying points in between, but that is a function of the intrinsic compression characteristics of an amp. Power supply sag contributes to this characteristic, as does negative feedback.

Sigh…twice I said that part of it is happening in the power section, but that doesn’t mean the friend I.e. preamp section doesn’t contribute to it.

To answer your question, last time I had an amp that made the right hand feel like it was dragging the pick through a sponge was a Guytron head.

Increased a few filter capacitor values in the power supply, decreased the value of one or two coupling caps in the preamp.

I was experiencing a saturation of the coupling caps, along with a lack of ability in the power supply to deliver the power I wanted when I wanted it, ended up with a very slow rise time on the attack. This changes the slope of the attack, but is not technically delay, just slow rise time on the leading edge of the envelope. But you certainly can feel it to the point of when hitting it very hard, an oversized coupling cap in the preamp or power amp can cause a super-slow attack, as it has to load before it can pass any usable signal, mimicking a time delay.

Can’t get it any clearer than that.

 

[Lysander]

i guess you know LT spice has time constant adjustment for capacitors to accommodate the various different material types used in capacitor construction.

PLEASE educate yourself on what a time constant is.

Spoiler alert though: it has shit to do with latency. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

 

[0XI0]

This changes the slope of the attack, but is not technically delay

it has to load before it can pass any usable signal, mimicking a time delay

it is totally delay, delay of transient, power latency that's time constant, 100% where "feel" and "dynamics" come from. if those latencies aren't input manually into a simulation and also offset from each other to account for component drift u leave a bunch of harmonics and "dynamics" on the table

 

[0XI0]

PLEASE educate yourself on what a time constant is.

Spoiler alert though: it has shit to do with latency. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

literally the only difference is a gradient, rate of change, slope. miss me with the group semantic two step. you can't perceive either one under 5ms without tools or your feelings, this thread is about feelings, the terms are interchangeable, nobody talking about systems right now

 

[Lysander]

literally the only difference is a gradient

Next time you ChatGPT "difference between latency and time constant", at least try paying attention to the whole thing. The last sentence in particular is pretty fucking important.