Calibrating Input Level for Plugins

[pipelineaudio]

I'm going to test james freeman's level findings in amplitube and assume the are the same with tonex and set levels accordingly and lets see what happens..

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I do the level adjustment the way tonex says, in tonex itself

there’s definitely some levels that can’t be adjusted in ToneX that you’d usually adjust on the gear you’re using but here you should do in the RME mixer.

Are you not using a DI at all for anything? only reamping?

Either way you should be able to hear the signal without ToneX and adjust the RME mixer to make sure when it’s monitoring through ToneX that levels are preserved. You should probably check with your DI to make sure it’s consistent. Having it calibrated for Helix almost certainly means it’s going to be too quiet for ToneX…

 

[pipelineaudio]

Whoa Nelly! I think James is onto something with where Amplitube wants to see the input. I'm going to try some captures with the tonex send dropped 12 to 15dB and see how it goes. It DEFINITELY is going 0dBFS or even higher for the send set at unity...

 

[pipelineaudio]

I think the pic above tells us everything we need to know, making a capture right now, fingers crossed

 

[pipelineaudio]

I'm going to try and isolate output volume problems from the returned capture from input gain and tone problems from the returned capture. I think I'm getting somewhere...I have a 1660 on this PC, I should be using my laptop with the 2070rtx, but I'm not sure I want to fork around with my RME card to put it on there

 

[pipelineaudio]

Getting closer using -12db down from unity to the input and -3 db down for the return results in this (pretty much the correct volume but not quite tone, but damn close

Adding 2 to the capture's Presence control results in this:

Unfortunately, the gain is still very far off:

 

[pipelineaudio]

Sadly, adding 12dB to the input seems to fix the gain, just like it did when capturing at drastically higher or drastically lower levels. It seems that no matter what I do, you need to add 12dB to the input of the recovered capture to get the gain right.

Again ,this is the same amount I need to add to the input if I do the capture at unity

 

[pipelineaudio]

Interesting that he had to turn down exactly the amount I had to turn up in the software. This may explain it

 

[norminal]

Interesting that he had to turn down exactly the amount I had to turn up in the software. This may explain it

Bingo!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

has anyone smarter than me calibrated their DI input level so they can reamp to a Fractal device accurately?

I currently have my DI set up to within 0.1dB of what Helix wants. My reamp level is calibrated so it perfectly matches my input level.

I usually reamp into my FM-3 via the line in (rather than the DI)'s and I think my input level needs to be dropped to 50% for it to behave like how I'd expect. I just did this by earballing but it would be cool to know how much I should drop the signal for my FM-3. Its much less faff for me to use a patch bay to route into the FM-3 rather than reaching around for guitar cables.

Apologies (and thanks) in advance to @James Freeman because I expect thats where the answer is coming from....

 

[pipelineaudio]

What is "post gain" in vitriol lead? It doesn;t seem to change the distortion, is it just volume or does it have an affect of some sort? How should I set it for matching?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

What is "post gain" in vitriol lead? It doesn;t seem to change the distortion, is it just volume or does it have an affect of some sort? How should I set it for matching?

its a channel master. basically before the signal hits the power amp. It will affect the tone, and it sounds best once you get to at least 2/3 of the way up IMO (which actually makes it closer to a stock 5150). If you want it to sound like a stock 5150, I believe you set it to around 8.

 

[James Freeman]

@MirrorProfiles
I am confused about what you call "DI Input" and "Line In" so I can't be much of help.

I usually reamp into my FM-3 via the line in (rather than the DI)'s

Sorry but I have no idea how "into" via "Line In" relate in that context.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I am confused about what you call "DI Input" and "Line In" so I can't be much of help.

As in, I’m coming out of a line output on my D/A, into a balanced input (In 2) on the FM-3 (rather than using the instrument input).

 

[James Freeman]

Is there any way to read peak dB values on a Fractal device?
Lets first find what the Instrument and FX Return read with a 0.707v RMS 440Hz sine tone.

EDIT:
Found the specs.

Axe-Fx III, FM9 and FM3 - Fractal Audio Wiki

wiki.fractalaudio.com

+16dBu for Instrument and +20dBu for Line Input.
Helix Guitar In is +11.5 dBu (measured), so it has less headroom than the FM3.
I wouldn't trust specs, for the most accurate results we need to measure.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Is there any way to read peak dB values on a Fractal device?
Lets first find what the Instrument and FX Return read with a 0.707v RMS 440Hz sine tone.

ohh I'll check shortly. Presumably its as simple as measuring the peak dB value of both and find the difference (so I can match the reading on In2 to whatever In1 gives)?

 

[James Freeman]

so I can match the reading on In2 to whatever In1 gives

Yes.
But also the DI signal out of your audio interface should match your actual guitar level, in other words your Audio Interface I-to-O should be level matched. That's very important when using output DI Box to capture amps too.

Math is okay when the specs are actually accurate at least to the first decimal point, but they seldom are if there is a spec all.
I just measure everything.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

But also the DI signal out of your audio interface should match your actual guitar level, in other words your Audio Interface I-to-O should be level matched. That's very important when using output DI Box to capture amps too.

Cool, I have my reamp box set up so it matches the level going into my DI. To get 0.5V I just adjust the sine wave signal level. For the In2, I adjusted the level using the balanced cable rather than the unbalanced guitar cable from the Reamp box. Now I'm a bit confused

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I had my Pro Tools Signal Generator set to -17.1dB to get 0.5V on the meter. Going into In2, this gave a signal on the FM-3 of +8.4dB.

If I lower the signal generator to -25.5dB, then I get 0dB on the FM-3. Guessing this means FM-3 wants a signal that is essentially 8.4dB lower than what my DI is set up for?

and if, for instance, someone was doing the reverse and using the FM-3 input for Helix, they'd have an 8.8dB difference to make up?

 

[James Freeman]

There is no way a 500mV signal clips a +20 dBu input.

Lets do it like so.
First generate a 400Hz sine wave in your DAW and send it to a free output on your audio interface.
Make it 500mV AC by adjusting the Track volume in your DAW.

Now measure the -dBFS of your:
1. Audio Interface Instrument Input (gain at minimum).
2. FM3 Instrument Input.
3. FM3 FX Return.