Calibrating Input Level for Plugins

[pipelineaudio]

Could this have something to do with why the captures on Tonex seem to need so much extra gain to match after the capture process?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Could this have something to do with why the captures on Tonex seem to need so much extra gain to match after the capture process?

ToneX wants a loud signal, but I don’t have to add any more gain than what it suggests when making a capture.

Are you having to add gain to match your own captures or when using other peoples?

The default level ToneX recommends is WAY louder than I’d record with. The captures come out pretty well matched if I’m set to that kind of level

 

[MirrorProfiles]

@James Freeman would be awesome if we can determine what calibration Softube are using. I think their Marshall stuff is pretty solid, and actually offers a couple of amps missing from Helix (especially a couple of 2203’s, Jubilee, Kerry King 800). They seem to me to be a bit like Amplitube where they need a good kick up the arse with input gain.

They’re also on sale quite often for very little, I think they’re worth picking up for $20-30 (and using other IR’s).

Amplitube also offers a few Marshalls missing from Helix. They have some good 800’s, 900, Jubilee, JMP-1, JVM Satriani….

 

[norminal]

We can't. All we can do is request people use interfaces with 1M Ohm Hi-Z inputs, preferably those with no gain control. Or, y'know, Line 6 Helix/HX boxes.

With the HX Stomp, do you recommend using the “Auto” for the “In-Z?”

I tried out Native last night using the Stomp, didn’t touch any of the levels, and it sounds identical to coming straight out of the analogue outs using the modeling in the Stomp.

 

[pipelineaudio]

ToneX wants a loud signal, but I don’t have to add any more gain than what it suggests when making a capture.

Are you having to add gain to match your own captures or when using other peoples?

The default level ToneX recommends is WAY louder than I’d record with. The captures come out pretty well matched if I’m set to that kind of level

When I make my own capture, after the capture I have to turn the input level up by 11 or 12db using another plugin in front to get the gain and levels to match and I have to add 2 to the presence.

IK Multimedia TONEX

This will definitely be helpful for when I also start capturing my Fractal amps! No but seriously, who’s doing a funky ass sweet patch for me to drop my amp block into, so I can rock out with my iPad?

thegearforum.com

 

[MirrorProfiles]

is this capturing an amp or a plugin? when setting up the routing and levels prior to reamping the capture signal, it’s important to make sure the reamp level is consistent with going straight in. I think most people’s issues with a lower signal are because these aren’t balanced properly, it’s common for reamp boxes to lose some level.

Sometimes I add a bit more gain to my captures after the fact, but needing 12dB makes me think something is wrong somewhere…

 

[pipelineaudio]

is this capturing an amp or a plugin? when setting up the routing and levels prior to reamping the capture signal, it’s important to make sure the reamp level is consistent with going straight in. I think most people’s issues with a lower signal are because these aren’t balanced properly, it’s common for reamp boxes to lose some level.

Sometimes I add a bit more gain to my captures after the fact, but needing 12dB makes me think something is wrong somewhere…

For me it’s a plug-in. I used the same levels as James Freeman showed how to achieve in the helix input levels thread

 

[James Freeman]

I tried out Native last night using the Stomp, didn’t touch any of the levels, and it sounds identical to coming straight out of the analogue outs using the modeling in the Stomp.

When using Helix hardware as your interface the input is already calibrated.

I think most people’s issues with a lower signal are because these aren’t balanced properly, it’s common for reamp boxes to lose some level.

This is something that people should start talking about and companies should start providing numbers.
I said earlier in this thread that even a 3db difference at the input and the model/capture doesn't 'feel' like the real amp anymore, in my experience with reamping it is true.

I use a DI Box with a 25k Log volume box in reverse as my reamp setup and I also calibrate its output level by looping back into the Hi-Z (guitar) Input on the interface and playing a sine tone, then I match the dB level using the volume box so I have exactly the same signal level as my guitar out of my reamp setup.
I do not have ToneX but if anyone can try calibrating a reamping box with 0.0dBFS as 0.707vRMS and capture an amp, maybe that is the ideal level for capturing?
I really wish manufacturers to start providing some numbers instead of this "play hard and don't clip" nonsense which often results in inaccurate captures or less than ideal experience with digital models.

Spoiler: my reamping setup

 

[pipelineaudio]

I like how the alleged golden ears mic pre snobs are just fine that these things never tell you just what their gain range is, but "we're SO SURE we level matched before we compared"

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I used the same levels as James Freeman showed how to achieve in the helix input levels thread

For the DI signal or for setting the send (AKA reamp signal) to Helix?

 

[pipelineaudio]

I'm capturing plugins, so I set my input gain for optimal for Helix, then set the capture process to that level. I had previously tried it by using the levels Tonex recommended, but it didn't turn out as well

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I’m pretty certain 95% of your volume disparities are because of not following IK’s volume suggestions the way they suggest. Any tech like this is quite specific about what kind of data it’s working with, (people in NAM group have experimented with this stuff quite a lot to find what gives the most accurate results).

 

[pipelineaudio]

Following them for the level setting seemed to end up much worse for me

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Following them for the level setting seemed to end up much worse for me

Right, but the reason you're having to do a massive volume boost is because you're doing it differently to how the software is designed to work (and then having to compensate). I think if you can get the gain staging figured out better you can avoid needing to fix it so much after the fact. I'd recommend trying to get your levels right for ToneX because the vast majority of captures and presets that are available will be much closer as they're intended without needing to play with your input level as much. But if this is working for you and you're happy then you're all good.

 

[pipelineaudio]

When you do it how the software tells you, you need to add a lot of output volume after the capture, not just the gain. Like I said twice, I tried doing it exactly how they tell you. Its much worse that way. Have you tried it? It seems I'm definitely not the only one from these threads.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Have you tried it? It seems I'm definitely not the only one from these threads.

yep, made a lot of captures (at least 85 that I'm happy with their accuracy) and am selling them without anyone encountering issues. It took me a few goes to get things right, and finding the sweet spots for the various levels in the process. The low output level thing is related to how ToneX handles external IR's. I can assure you these issues are down to user error (which IMO IK could have avoided a bit with how they've handled gain staging). I've helped several friends (who were complaining about mismatched gain) get better results by adjusting their levels.

The quiet output with external IR's is a different thing and HOPEFULLY fixed now with the latest version

 

[pipelineaudio]

I'll keep trying, sounds like you've done enough o figure it out, I wonder if I hsve to do something very different for capturing software plugins rather than hardware

 

[pipelineaudio]

@MirrorProfiles do you have any tips to get the levels right? Going by their setup process just isn't working. Do you think maybe its like James Freeman was showing with Amplitube's desired level, so the prerecorded riffs on tonex really need to hit the input much lower?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

@MirrorProfiles do you have any tips to get the levels right? Going by their setup process just isn't working. Do you think maybe its like James Freeman was showing with Amplitube's desired level, so the prerecorded riffs on tonex really need to hit the input much lower?

what’s your chain (DI box, interface, what you’re trying to capture etc)? maybe with a screenshot of the routing window too?

 

[pipelineaudio]

what’s your chain (DI box, interface, what you’re trying to capture etc)? maybe with a screenshot of the routing window too?

Im going straight into a daw from tonex, thru RME loopback back and forth back into tonex, there are no DI or any analog cables involved. I can turn up or down any route at any point but they are currently at Unity and I do the level adjustment the way tonex says, in tonex itself