Burned out

[ejecta]

Imma get controversial here: stop trying to pretend your digital box is a music room full of analog gear. That advice is useful for dudes that are seriously overthinking it and slapping 5 parametric eq blocks in a row and putting stuff in parallel just because they can even though they aren’t actually doing any parallel processing, are running dual amps all the time, stereo everything, etc. But for folks that are already keeping it fairly straightforward, that advice leads to “but when I put pedal X in front of amp Y it’s just isn’t quite the same as when I do it with the real deal.”

Do what you did when you had a few pedals and an AC15 - really figure out how to use those tools to get the sound you want. My guess is to that you did a fair amount of experimentation you found the sounds you liked/needed and then lived with them long enough that they became your gold standard.

You have been using the fractal eco system long enough to have a grasp of a sub-set of the tools in that box that sound pretty darn good to you. Use those tools to dial in sounds that work, however you have to do it. Experiment beyond what you would have done with “the real gear”. Dial in sounds you like and judge whether they fit the context of the music, NOT based on whether they sound better/worse than an amp and pedals would.

Because every time you’ve tried to go back to amp/pedals it has been good for a very short period and then you’ve remembered why, for what you do, digital makes so much more sense.

And for some… digital makes more sense in some situations and in others…. not so much. Same for analog. Personally the hybrid approach is a win win.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

And for some… digital makes more sense in some situations and in others…. not so much. Same for analog. Personally the hybrid approach is a win win.

Of course. But this thread isn’t about you or anyone else aside fro metro and his perpetual struggle.

 

[metropolis_4]

Imma get controversial here: stop trying to pretend your digital box is a music room full of analog gear. That advice is useful for dudes that are seriously overthinking it and slapping 5 parametric eq blocks in a row and putting stuff in parallel just because they can even though they aren’t actually doing any parallel processing, are running dual amps all the time, stereo everything, etc. But for folks that are already keeping it fairly straightforward, that advice leads to “but when I put pedal X in front of amp Y it’s just isn’t quite the same as when I do it with the real deal.”

Do what you did when you had a few pedals and an AC15 - really figure out how to use those tools to get the sound you want. My guess is to that you did a fair amount of experimentation you found the sounds you liked/needed and then lived with them long enough that they became your gold standard.

You have been using the fractal eco system long enough to have a grasp of a sub-set of the tools in that box that sound pretty darn good to you. Use those tools to dial in sounds that work, however you have to do it. Experiment beyond what you would have done with “the real gear”. Dial in sounds you like and judge whether they fit the context of the music, NOT based on whether they sound better/worse than an amp and pedals would.

Because every time you’ve tried to go back to amp/pedals it has been good for a very short period and then you’ve remembered why, for what you do, digital makes so much more sense.

On the flip side, I feel like I go back to digital because it’s what I’m supposed to do and it’s great for a short time then I remember what I don’t like about it.

It’s this heart and brain sort of struggle: I go with digital because my brain tells me that’s the smart move, but my heart still wants to live in analog land.


It’s not like it’s some major crisis or struggle in my life, I mostly just rant about it here all the time because I’m a bit of an extrovert and I need to say it somewhere to process my own thoughts about it.

I kind of enjoy jumping around and going back and forth with digital and amps. Fresh gear sometimes is nice for fresh perspectives on playing. I don’t think I’ll ever be one of those players who sticks with a rig for life

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

On the flip side, I feel like I go back to digital because it’s what I’m supposed to do and it’s great for a short time then I remember what I don’t like about it.

It’s this heart and brain sort of struggle: I go with digital because my brain tells me that’s the smart move, but my heart still wants to live in analog land.


It’s not like it’s some major crisis or struggle in my life, I mostly just rant about it here all the time because I’m a bit of an extrovert and I need to say it somewhere to process my own thoughts about it.

I kind of enjoy jumping around and going back and forth with digital and amps. Fresh gear sometimes is nice for fresh perspectives on playing. I don’t think I’ll ever be one of those players who sticks with a rig for life

Maybe my memory is wrong, but it seems you always like for the amp/pedal setup I between gigs/while preparing for a gig, and the as soon as you are on the gig…you are right back to digital.

 

[laxu]

On the flip side, I feel like I go back to digital because it’s what I’m supposed to do and it’s great for a short time then I remember what I don’t like about it.

It’s this heart and brain sort of struggle: I go with digital because my brain tells me that’s the smart move, but my heart still wants to live in analog land.


It’s not like it’s some major crisis or struggle in my life, I mostly just rant about it here all the time because I’m a bit of an extrovert and I need to say it somewhere to process my own thoughts about it.

I kind of enjoy jumping around and going back and forth with digital and amps. Fresh gear sometimes is nice for fresh perspectives on playing. I don’t think I’ll ever be one of those players who sticks with a rig for life

Sounds to me you just need to own both types of rigs. The digital stuff and the "simple amp and a few pedals" rig. Then you always have the reminder why that digital rig makes sense most of the time.

I don't think most of us are "rig for life" type people but are always changing what we use - often without any real reason either. I should have probably stopped looking when I had some real amps and a Helix Floor because that was in hindsight pretty easy to manage and sounded great.

 

[metropolis_4]

Maybe my memory is wrong, but it seems you always like for the amp/pedal setup I between gigs/while preparing for a gig, and the as soon as you are on the gig…you are right back to digital.

Last October-ish I switched to a tube amp and pedals for a show that ran through Feb. That was the first time I’d used a tube amp for a gig in about 12 years.

It was actually a really good experience overall.

But once that show ended and I was preparing for the next I had a choice to make: commit to the amp rig and continue investing more money in it, or go back to digital.

I got cold feet and sold everything and went back to AxeFX. Mostly because I thought it was the safe choice - one rig that can do anything I’ll ever need.

The AxeFX was great for the last run of shows, but honestly I could’ve done just as well with an amp.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Last October-ish I switched to a tube amp and pedals for a show that ran through Feb. That was the first time I’d used a tube amp for a gig in about 12 years.

It was actually a really good experience overall.

But once that show ended and I was preparing for the next I had a choice to make: commit to the amp rig and continue investing more money in it, or go back to digital.

I got cold feet and sold everything and went back to AxeFX. Mostly because I thought it was the safe choice - one rig that can do anything I’ll ever need.

The AxeFX was great for the last run of shows, but honestly I could’ve done just as well with an amp.

I get that not everything we write here necessarily comports with our actual lived experience, but also might be worth it to re-read your old thread from last time, because TO ME, this all reads “the pros of amps never outweigh their cons”. So either currently having a case of rose colored glasses (totally fine), or you were being overly pessimistic in the previous thread (also totally fine…venting is absolutely part of what this place is for).

In terms of “investment”, I think in the long run you are gonna lose a loooooooot less money overall if you just keep a fractal rig and then also have an amp/pedal rig, knowing that the latter may have some flipping involved here and there as you try different amps.

Played my first gig with a tube amp in 7 years

I finally got the JRT 9/15 and was able to use it for four shows over the weekend. I've been all digital for a while so this was the first time I've used a tube amp on a gig in about 7 years! The shows are all '50s music (Etta James, Big Mamma Thornton, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Richie Valens...

thegearforum.com

 

[metropolis_4]

I get that not everything we write here necessarily comports with our actual lived experience, but also might be worth it to re-read your old thread from last time, because TO ME, this all reads “the pros of amps never outweigh their cons”. So either currently having a case of rose colored glasses (totally fine), or you were being overly pessimistic in the previous thread (also totally fine…venting is absolutely part of what this place is for).

In terms of “investment”, I think in the long run you are gonna lose a loooooooot less money overall if you just keep a fractal rig and then also have an amp/pedal rig, knowing that the latter may have some flipping involved here and there as you try different amps.

Played my first gig with a tube amp in 7 years

I finally got the JRT 9/15 and was able to use it for four shows over the weekend. I've been all digital for a while so this was the first time I've used a tube amp on a gig in about 7 years! The shows are all '50s music (Etta James, Big Mamma Thornton, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Richie Valens...

thegearforum.com

It's really interesting to me looking back at that, but I have a bit different take on it.

I wrote that right at the start of the experiment, and I was looking at it from the perspective of having used digital for many many years.

• After carrying small portable boxes for years carrying an amp again felt like a burden.
• I didn't trust tube amp reliability because it had been so long since I'd relied on one (and I still had memories of some bad experiences from the past)
• I wasn't used to my on-stage monitoring coming from the floor like that, I was used to hearing it in IEM's or a wedge pointed up at me.
• I had an instinct to want to add more things and tweak tweak tweak tweak like I would do in my digital workflow.

I was trying to approach the amp + pedals rig the same way I thought about a digital rig, and that didn't work.


But after a while none of these things bothered me anymore - once I learned to shift my perspective.

• The weight stopped bothering me, and I was mostly leaving it set up for months at a time so no big deal.
• I never had a single amp reliability problem and I learned to stop worrying and trust the gear.
• I adapted to the monitoring situation and it stopped bothering me.
• I realized I didn't need all the additional EQ and compressors, what I had was working.

And on the plus side I realized I needed far fewer effects than I'd originally planned. When I started the run I had a board with 4 pedals on it. By the end of the first month I had no pedals because I realized I didn't need them. I tried to plan the rig out the way I would have built it digitally, but the tube amp didn't need all that.

If I'd written a follow-up a month after that post it would have read much different. The last two months were nothing but positive.

But later in that thread I can see my sickness starting to creep in and ruin it all. I start thinking of ways I could tinker with it, more options I'd like to have, more control, more sounds, more amps... and that kind of thinking always leads me to digital. But not in a healthy way. Digital gear becomes an enabler for those unhealthy gear tendencies I have.

 

[ejecta]

But this thread isn’t about you or anyone else aside fro metro and his perpetual struggle.

Pretty sure he posted it for people’s input and perspective or why post at all… so you gave yours and I gave mine.

 

[la szum]

Seems to me this "As The Rig Turns" thing is really dependent on the gigs you are gettings. Sounds
like you enjoy committing to playing whatever role is asked of you---dependent on the music being
played--and dive all in trying to find the best possible setup for that gig.

Then the gig ends and another one comes up and questions begged to be answered all over again.

 

[metropolis_4]

Seems to me this "As The Rig Turns" thing is really dependent on the gigs you are gettings. Sounds
like you enjoy committing to playing whatever role is asked of you---dependent on the music being
played--and dive all in trying to find the best possible setup for that gig.

Then the gig ends and another one comes up and questions begged to be answered all over again.

That’s pretty much it in a nutshell

 

[la szum]

Don't try so hard!!

 

[northern_fox]

The audience doesn't really care what it sounds like as long as it's not obviously sucky (except for the one dude in back judging you for not using a tube amp) - I just keep reminding myself that what's more important is consistency, setup time and stage level, and doing my best to separate my "fun" home gear setups from what does the job live and break the habit of gear-as-identity

 

[laxu]

But later in that thread I can see my sickness starting to creep in and ruin it all. I start thinking of ways I could tinker with it, more options I'd like to have, more control, more sounds, more amps... and that kind of thinking always leads me to digital. But not in a healthy way. Digital gear becomes an enabler for those unhealthy gear tendencies I have.

I find that I use digital partially also as an anti-GAS tool. Since I can try pretty stellar versions of almost any amp and effect imaginable on Fractal or Helix Native, it leads to less "I need to buy this thing" shopping.

I've also tried to shift my perspective on how I use digital gear. Less "let's cram in everything since I have some spare CPU", more "just what I need for this" and less chasing of that elusive 2% improvement.

I built my pedalboard as a simpler, more hands-on alternative to my Axe-Fx 3 and it certainly works for that - it's more fun to use for experimenting with sounds. But it's ended up as a bit of a monster for similar reasons you mention - more control, more options. It does way more than I truly need and was probably close to ideal when it was just Flint V1, Volante, compressor and a couple of drive pedals. Then it grew into a MIDI controlled loop switcher beast and now it has been simplified to "mostly Strymon" because that lets me avoid using a loop switcher, greatly simplifying cabling. But when you have all those great sounds at your disposal it's really hard to give them up too. Then it's hard to give up that one button switching convenience.

 

[dronerstone]

I built my pedalboard as a simpler, more hands-on alternative to my Axe-Fx 3 and it certainly works for that

This, EXACTLY.

Over two decades, I gradually went full-on "spaceship" board, until it got so huge that it became a PITA to lug. Then I got the HX FX and went to jams and rehearsals with only that + an expression pedal, still getting the gist of the sounds, and nailing pretty much everything I deem essential. Two years in, I recreated my kitchen-sink presets using a mid-sized board that lives in our practice space, permanently, because it's nice not having to transport anything back'n'forth each week, and I want to have the HX FX available at home, since it can do so much more than just load my go-to presets, but I don't get to experiment during band practice.

So one "problem" lead to buying a multi/modeler, and that lead to buying yet another pedalboard + then a handful of pedals.

Nice, huh? The perks of GAS.

 

[James Freeman]

I don't understand why it has to be either or, why can't it be both, one at a time or a combination of the two?
I think another part of the "problem" is people are quick to sell the stuff they don't use for a month, I'm not encouraging hoarding gear but owning a few useful macronutrients in case you get bored or burned out with the only thing you kept.
For me it's 1-3 amps, a good full sized modeler, a few essential pedals, and 1-3 guitars.

Yeah, I think the core of the problem is not enough gear.

 

[dronerstone]

I don't understand why it has to be either or, why can't it be both, one at a time or a combination of the two?

Rule #1: There are no other rules.

 

[AFKAEjay]

It's really interesting to me looking back at that, but I have a bit different take on it.

I wrote that right at the start of the experiment, and I was looking at it from the perspective of having used digital for many many years.

• After carrying small portable boxes for years carrying an amp again felt like a burden.
• I didn't trust tube amp reliability because it had been so long since I'd relied on one (and I still had memories of some bad experiences from the past)
• I wasn't used to my on-stage monitoring coming from the floor like that, I was used to hearing it in IEM's or a wedge pointed up at me.
• I had an instinct to want to add more things and tweak tweak tweak tweak like I would do in my digital workflow.

I was trying to approach the amp + pedals rig the same way I thought about a digital rig, and that didn't work.


But after a while none of these things bothered me anymore - once I learned to shift my perspective.

• The weight stopped bothering me, and I was mostly leaving it set up for months at a time so no big deal.
• I never had a single amp reliability problem and I learned to stop worrying and trust the gear.
• I adapted to the monitoring situation and it stopped bothering me.
• I realized I didn't need all the additional EQ and compressors, what I had was working.

And on the plus side I realized I needed far fewer effects than I'd originally planned. When I started the run I had a board with 4 pedals on it. By the end of the first month I had no pedals because I realized I didn't need them. I tried to plan the rig out the way I would have built it digitally, but the tube amp didn't need all that.

If I'd written a follow-up a month after that post it would have read much different. The last two months were nothing but positive.

But later in that thread I can see my sickness starting to creep in and ruin it all. I start thinking of ways I could tinker with it, more options I'd like to have, more control, more sounds, more amps... and that kind of thinking always leads me to digital. But not in a healthy way. Digital gear becomes an enabler for those unhealthy gear tendencies I have.

Why choose between digital / analog?…how about a board that does both?
I can imagine drives / compressors to have an itch for analog, and maybe time efx/clean boosts are perfectly handled by a 3 knob modeler.
1 board with a couple of pedals, small modeler, maybe a switcher…that can do front of amp, 4cm…and can be used stand alone as a direct to foh solution.

side note: What I’m starting to think through lately: set up a really small board with most essential stuff. (Prob boss GT core, 1 preamp, 1 delay, switcher)…that’s the board I always take, fits in a gigbag, can do direct, can do amp…has my basics covered.
Then equip it with a multiconnector (midi/power/relay/audio) which allows me to add 2 small boards, 1 loaded with 3 pedals, 1 loaded with expression Pedals….for when I want/need more toys. Reason for this direction of thought that I’m done with using different gear/setup all the time.…always takes some getting used to…which is counterproductive. When I can get the core of my sounds on the smallboard…at least that is always covered.

 

[EOengineer]

That’s pretty much it in a nutshell

So at least from a distance, it seems like you are trying to put together a single rig that covers all your bases for any gig you are picking up. One rig to rule them all, if you will. What about building out a couple of different rigs instead of a huge monolith?

As an example, I have my Helix rig that I use for silent rehearsal and any show where the venue can support not having physical guitar amps without creating a miserable playing experience. Then I have my stockpile of tube amps and analog pedals that I keep around for the gigs where I know I'm going to have to crank an amp to clear the drums and I need that more traditional playing experience. As a "best of both worlds" experiment I've also been adjusting my Helix presets to split out to a solid state power amp and guitar cab so that I can go direct to FOH AND get a more traditional playing experience on stage when I don't want to carry all the heavy gear around.

IMO the key to sanity is to stop trying to get everything you need for all your gigs in one rig. Give yourself options, and identify the scenarios that make you choose one option over the other. You need to be able to evaluate and make concise decisions or you will drive yourself insane when you should be having fun.

 

[Whizzinby]

I may be oversimplifying this but why not own a modeler and an amp and not have to worry about what you want to use on any given day of the week. You can have both. In fact, you deserve it.