Boss GT-1000 (and possibly other things Boss...)

Ok, re: Noise when using the GT-1000 loops.

I could've done a more scientific test, but for me, that's completely irrelevant in any real life scenarios. So here's just a little file demonstrating the noise floor of FX loop 1 with a NUX Amp Academy in it. In the beginning, the guitar is turned all the way down, then I'll play some chords - so this is 100% representing a real life scenario. The final file is normalized and the max. volume in the "silent" beginning measures around -90dB. I wouldn't even be bothered about that in a critical recording scenario.



I will now as well record an overdriven example.
 
So, here's an overdriven file. It's a Friedman BE-OD running into an almost completely clean Atomic Amplifirebox in FX loop 2.
As with the first example, in the beginning the guitar is turned all the way down. Final file is normalized. Noise floor in the beginning is at around -50dB. Fwiw, guitar is an Anderson with a DiMarzio Bluesbucker in bridge position.



You can listen to the file and decide for yourself whether that is too much noise for this amount of overdrive. For me it isn't. And it's very well within a range where a gate could completely get rid of all noise without compromising playing dynamics, ringing out notes and what not.
 
So, here's an overdriven file. It's a Friedman BE-OD running into an almost completely clean Atomic Amplifirebox in FX loop 2.
As with the first example, in the beginning the guitar is turned all the way down. Final file is normalized. Noise floor in the beginning is at around -50dB. Fwiw, guitar is an Anderson with a DiMarzio Bluesbucker in bridge position.



You can listen to the file and decide for yourself whether that is too much noise for this amount of overdrive. For me it isn't. And it's very well within a range where a gate could completely get rid of all noise without compromising playing dynamics, ringing out notes and what not.

I think the people who had an issue with the GT loop were running a high gain circuit after the return. Afaik noise becomes problematic on many units when you do that. Compressor with extreme settings would probably also do the trick ;)
 
I think the people who had an issue with the GT loop were running a high gain circuit after the return. Afaik noise becomes problematic on many units when you do that. Compressor with extreme settings would probably also do the trick ;)

Oh sure - but that's where common sense becomes helpful.
Anyhow, as far as slapping an amp-only unit in the loop goes, the GT-1000 behaves absolutely fine IMO.
 
Ok, re: Noise when using the GT-1000 loops.

I could've done a more scientific test, but for me, that's completely irrelevant in any real life scenarios. So here's just a little file demonstrating the noise floor of FX loop 1 with a NUX Amp Academy in it. In the beginning, the guitar is turned all the way down, then I'll play some chords - so this is 100% representing a real life scenario. The final file is normalized and the max. volume in the "silent" beginning measures around -90dB. I wouldn't even be bothered about that in a critical recording scenario.



I will now as well record an overdriven example.

Must be my unit then. The noise is apperent when I let a chord suntain for more than 5 seconds
 
Ohh hell, ohh hell, damn thats so chuggy 🌭
I recently changed pickups on my jackson, gone from passive emg hz h3 to 89xr and 85x.
So had to review some of my fun presets.

X-optima is so so chuggy and so so pure, i even felt metal taste on my tongue.
  1. NS by preference or 50-50
  2. Tube screamer D0, T+15, L60, B0, mix0, off, solo50
  3. X-optima G60, SAG+9, RESO+10, L65, B75, M65, T57, P60, gain middle (juicier on my 85x), solo off, solo50
  4. Eq 31.5+2, 63+5, 125+4, 250-3, 500-7, 1k-5, 2k-4, 4k+5, 8k+5, 16k+1
  5. Eq low125 Q0.5+1, high5k Q0.5+3
  6. Ola’s JAG4x12 IR (don’t remember which mike it is 😅, there are few)
 
Ohh hell, ohh hell, damn thats so chuggy 🌭
I recently changed pickups on my jackson, gone from passive emg hz h3 to 89xr and 85x.
So had to review some of my fun presets.

X-optima is so so chuggy and so so pure, i even felt metal taste on my tongue.
  1. NS by preference or 50-50
  2. Tube screamer D0, T+15, L60, B0, mix0, off, solo50
  3. X-optima G60, SAG+9, RESO+10, L65, B75, M65, T57, P60, gain middle (juicier on my 85x), solo off, solo50
  4. Eq 31.5+2, 63+5, 125+4, 250-3, 500-7, 1k-5, 2k-4, 4k+5, 8k+5, 16k+1
  5. Eq low125 Q0.5+1, high5k Q0.5+3
  6. Ola’s JAG4x12 IR (don’t remember which mike it is 😅, there are few)
Do you have to push the sag and resonance that high because of the IR?
 
I'm a little bit perplexed right now.

Originally wanted to post this in the Tonex thread, but the information is possibly as relevant here.
According to Leo Gibson, the device latency of the GT-1000 would be 0.7ms. But it's actually less, it's not even 0.6ms (0.58 to be exact).
Then, and this is where things really start to get crazy: With one (serial, obviously) loop engaged, the latency only goes up to 0.75ms.
With both loops running serially (so loop 1 returns and then instantly goes into loop 2), that value is established as latency is now at 0.97ms.

Note: There might be very slight inaccuracies due to the transients possibly be a little smeared by the triple ADDA conversion and whatever op amps in the GT, but these inaccuracies are within the 0.0x ms realm.

So, apart from the overall latency with no loops engaged being extremely low already, a little bit contrary to what often is the case, the loops add *less* than full device latency to the overall picture (very often it'd just double because there's the double amount of converters and signal processing).

And btw, as I couldn't actually believe these numbers myself, I crosschecked everything multiple times. Tried my Zoom G3 that I used as a splitting device on its own, as I was suspecting there might be some sort of offset between the left and right outs, but there's none. I even flipped the input channels on my Motu M2 to see whether something would be happening there (which was very unlikely to start with), but nada.
So the latencies are in fact *that* low. I have absolutely no idea how Boss manages to pull that off, but it's just incredible.

Anyhow, for a final test (because that might become my future setup), I inserted a Tonex One into one loop, running a clean capture, and the overall latency was 2.8ms. Without the capture loaded, it's just 2.1ms, so at least some captures add some latency (I observed that before already).

Whatever, around 3ms for a whooping 4 serial ADDA cycles is just stunning. Also, while you find people complaining about whatever hiss or other sound integrity issues when it comes to the GT loops - fuck that, sound quality is actually excellent once you use decent power supplies and check the various ground lift settings.

In the end, I guess it really shows that Roland/Boss has an enormous experience when doing digital pedals. I mean, people are chaining their pedals since decades already, and if latency was a real issue, I'm sure it would be discussed about anywhere. But looking at the GT's figures, you just know why it isn't.
 
In the end, I guess it really shows that Roland/Boss has an enormous experience when doing digital pedals. I mean, people are chaining their pedals since decades already, and if latency was a real issue, I'm sure it would be discussed about anywhere. But looking at the GT's figures, you just know why it isn't.
It helps that Roland makes their own DSP, whereas everyone else uses NXP, ADSP, or TI. Boss can probably go directly to the people who made those DSPs, and ask how to use them best, or for extra features/bug fixes/optimizations.
 
It helps that Roland makes their own DSP, whereas everyone else uses NXP, ADSP, or TI. Boss can probably go directly to the people who made those DSPs, and ask how to use them best, or for extra features/bug fixes/optimizations.

Possibly.
Still, it's really astounding. I always thought Leo Gibsons measurements were correct, never expected the numbers to actually be too *high*. And I also expected the loops to add the same amount of latency on top.

Anyhow, I also checked how much the sound would see an impact when running dirt pedals and Tonex One in separate loops (so far they've been in one loop), but that's actually just fine. Might be somewhat "different", but nothing I wouldn't want to deal with, especially as this pretty much expands my options.
I will now get one of the small boxes to gain MIDI (and wireless programming) capability for the Tonex, which will then allow me to reduce things to one single amp modeler in the GT's loops - plus it'll as well allow me to use multiple captures of the Tonex, which is something I really want.
In addition, while not exactly being a global block functionality, the autosave architecture of the Tonex makes quick patch adjustment quite an easy thing. I'm even considering a small MIDI knob box already, but I need to wait for any of the Tonex-MIDI things to be in my hands to see what's possible.

As a general observation: I still hate the GT's editing as much as it gets. Possibly the worst in class. But once you're done with it, it's a really great unit. An absolute gigging machine for what I need. The global block functionality delivers pretty much exactly the kind of things I really wanted (would love to have more than 6 encoders for global parameters to be mapped to, though).
 
Possibly.
Still, it's really astounding. I always thought Leo Gibsons measurements were correct, never expected the numbers to actually be too *high*. And I also expected the loops to add the same amount of latency on top.

Anyhow, I also checked how much the sound would see an impact when running dirt pedals and Tonex One in separate loops (so far they've been in one loop), but that's actually just fine. Might be somewhat "different", but nothing I wouldn't want to deal with, especially as this pretty much expands my options.
I will now get one of the small boxes to gain MIDI (and wireless programming) capability for the Tonex, which will then allow me to reduce things to one single amp modeler in the GT's loops - plus it'll as well allow me to use multiple captures of the Tonex, which is something I really want.
In addition, while not exactly being a global block functionality, the autosave architecture of the Tonex makes quick patch adjustment quite an easy thing. I'm even considering a small MIDI knob box already, but I need to wait for any of the Tonex-MIDI things to be in my hands to see what's possible.

As a general observation: I still hate the GT's editing as much as it gets. Possibly the worst in class. But once you're done with it, it's a really great unit. An absolute gigging machine for what I need. The global block functionality delivers pretty much exactly the kind of things I really wanted (would love to have more than 6 encoders for global parameters to be mapped to, though).

I think GT-1000 Core + Tonex + MIDI controller would be an extremely powerful setup, assuming you don't need more than one proper delay.
 
As a general observation: I still hate the GT's editing as much as it gets. Possibly the worst in class. But once you're done with it, it's a really great unit. An absolute gigging machine for what I need. The global block functionality delivers pretty much exactly the kind of things I really wanted (would love to have more than 6 encoders for global parameters to be mapped to, though).

Editing is quite easy IMHO. I guess you're not used to Roland/Boss paradigm. Some things are cryptic like the whole IR/output settings, but apart from that, editing a preset is quite fast. It's certainly not worst in class. I also guess you have no experience with Eventide units or old Lexicon. Now that's another story.
 
Editing is quite easy IMHO.

Might be easy, but it's horribly slow regarding each and every aspect.

I guess you're not used to Roland/Boss paradigm.

You couldn't be further away from the truth. It's my 3rd GT unit.

editing a preset is quite fast.

No. Compared to the competition it's awkwardly slow. Proveably so.

And I have no idea why you would compare things to older Eventide or Lexicon units. Where's their amp modelers?
 
The (lack of) latency is great. I can’t say I ever really thought about with Helix until I had them side by side on the floor and the transients on clean/mid gain tones “pop” more when I’m playing through a speaker in the room (headphone it doesn’t matter) which might be due to the fact that the sound seemed more immediate. It never felt like lag with Helix, and I can’t say it’s noticeable in any real world situation, but it’s notable while I’m playing by myself in the room. I know you HATE the way on-device editing works, but it seems that once you learn and accept some of the nonsensical navigation and selection protocols it goes pretty quick. I never really noticed how much I would appreciate global blocks, but being able to make a couple small adjustments to my amps or EQs and having ALL of my live presets updated is so nice.
 
I can’t say I ever really thought about with Helix until I had them side by side on the floor and the transients on clean/mid gain tones “pop” more when I’m playing through a speaker in the room (headphone it doesn’t matter) which might be due to the fact that the sound seemed more immediate.

I'm not sure whether that's really got to do with latency. I mean, we're talking less than a handful of milliseconds of a difference here.
I'd rather guess it's the different dynamic behaviour of whatever amp models.
But anyway, the lower the latency, the more freedom for complexed nesting of digital units there is.

I never really noticed how much I would appreciate global blocks, but being able to make a couple small adjustments to my amps or EQs and having ALL of my live presets updated is so nice.

I guess that's how it'd be for many people. Which is why I often got kinda blamed by some folks when I was continuing to tell them how great such a functionality is and they told me I wouldn't know how to properly prepare patches, would be such an amateur hack and what not.
But once you put things to good use, you really don't want to miss out on it ever again.

And fwiw, it's not only because of some obvious things, there's some "hidden" values, too. Especially with the Helix Floor global blocks would've been a godsend once they introduced gapless switching and delay/verb trail spillover. Was only possible at the expense of losing one complete signal path aka half your CPU juice. But with global blocks you'd very likely been able to split your large kitchensink alike patches into two (or even more) and still wouldn't have to tweak the most important parameters of each patch separately.

With my current GT setup, I have one EQ per each amp path (following the loops with my actual amp sims in them), set to global and I have assigned the low mid level to two encoders. Center frequency for both is 315Hz, Q is set to minimum (so a very broad band) and I can then thicken up or somewhat thin out either my cleans or dirts. I have used one and/or the other on pretty much each gig ever since I came up with that idea and it's working incredibly well. Such a small thing, but it makes a whole lot of a difference. And it's absolutely impossibly with any other modeler (ok, maybe the Kemper could get close, but I'm not sure about how the parameter lock function actually works in detail).
Same goes for my global lead boost level and what not.
 
Back
Top