Boss GM-800 and GK-5

[TJontheRoad]

Question for guitar synth users: Why guitar synth over having an actual synth keyboard to the side?

I've tried a guitar synth once, don't remember which Boss model, it's been many years now so probably not the latest. For me the big problem was adapting to play it like the instrument in use. Guitar -> sax sounds is pretty straightforward, but e.g guitar -> keyboard type instruments was more difficult. It felt a bit weird to play guitar like that.

For me it's just easier to use an actual keyboard for that stuff, plus not worrying about any of the guitar synth quirks like tracking etc.

If you can play keyboards, there isn't any advantages to a guitar synth other than being able to blend the guitar and synth simultaneously.

 

[Bob Zaod]

For me it's just easier to use an actual keyboard for that stuff, plus not worrying about any of the guitar synth quirks like tracking etc.

That is what I discovered. I really just needed to spend some time moving around with chords on a real set of keys and I was doing simple stuff within hours. Now I get to take a break from guitar here and there and provide keys for a few songs. No more strange looks from punters now either. I've dabbled for quite a few years but never really concentrated on being able to move around. Now that I can it is also fun as heck and another tool I can now use. Dont get me wrong I cant solo or anything but I had a few songs worked up in no time once I was able to freely move around. I spend at least 30 minutes a day on keys now to make sure my muscle memory stays.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Any "usable in a live context" keybaord is going to take up way more stage real estate than a guitar rig that already has to be there. That you already know how to play. Combined with the non-existent keyboard player that I can't find in my area.

The surprise and stupid enjoyment I get when hearing the sound of a different instrument coming out at me from a note I played on the guitar cannot be emphasized enough. I gave up being precious about "matching the playing approach and style normally associated with the instrument that's being emulated" long ago. Bend that mutherfunkin' trumpet note. I do it all the time. I also don't use any piano sounds because those are the ones you have to play nice with or else. AKA boring.

Boss has repeatedly tried to rewrite guitar synth history and dump the Roland approach of PCM/instrument emulation. I think the market they think the SY stuff appeals to is different than what it actually is. Dudes in cover bands wanting to make non guitar sounds for songs in their live repertoire. I know that isn't deemed cool really in any circle but that's where I see guitar synth being the most useful. I think a lot of people that use it think the same way.

There is a contingency of people using the tech in creative ways. AKA TJ, Brock or MChad's approach. And my own in the once a decade synthwave stuff I have been doing. But I don't think it's a very big group of people vs. guys that want a saxophone sound for whatever cover tune they are futzing with at the moment. Beyond the fact that most of the people I mentioned would (or have) move on to something else in a heartbeat because of the general Boss vibe in this particular niche of gear.

This thing is an SY1000Core with the Boss wireless unit. That's cool but not something I will splurge on. The size reduction is great and can actually fit reasonably on a pedalboard (hopefully they included MIDI). For the bazillionth time; if they put a new GR out in this form factor; I'd be all about.

 

[laxu]

Just a guess but maybe some people can't play keyboards, let alone playing keyboards while playing guitar.

I can understand that. I'm a total beginner on keys, but it's certainly something I can just work on improving without having the tech get in the way.

I assume for most people it would not be "guitar and synth sounds at the same time" but one or the other. There's such a huge variety of synths out there, big and small that portability shouldn't be too much of an issue either.

 

[metropolis_4]

I think there’s also something to be said for being able to layer guitars or guitar with synth that wouldn’t be possible on a keyboard

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I think there’s also something to be said for being able to layer guitars or guitar with synth that wouldn’t be possible on a keyboard

Yep, it is very fun. Be it a pad type thing that has modulation movement that just lays in the background or a sharp attack of lead type sounds that double your lines. Then add an expression pedal or momentary switch that acts as expression sweep to bring it in and out of competing with guitar tone volume. Or assign envelope filter to it so the synth tone swells up only when you pick aggressively. Or drops in volume when you pick aggressively….etc etc etc…
it is very inspiring for me… but 13pin inhales profusely

 

[TJontheRoad]

Another guitar synth advantage is the way guitar chord voicings tend to differ and not translate well when trying to play the same voicings on keys. The slight attack and timing variations on guitar are not easy to reproduce with keys.

The SY-1000 synths have a certain cheesy lo-fi interesting character. The guitar modeling and alt tunings are even bigger attractions. Those are the reasons I've held on to it. A wireless version of the same stuff wouldn't move me to buy.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Another guitar synth advantage is the way guitar chord voicings tend to differ and not translate well when trying to play the same voicings on keys. The slight attack and timing variations on guitar are not easy to reproduce with keys.

The SY-1000 synths have a certain cheesy lo-fi interesting character. The guitar modeling and alt tunings are even bigger attractions. Those are the reasons I've held on to it. A wireless version of the same stuff wouldn't move me to buy.

A version not requiring me to use my luth-i-yay skills to hack a guitar to death to use that made cool sounds would move me.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

A wireless version of the same stuff wouldn't move me to buy.

Yea but a wireless hex pickup with pitch to midi at acceptable latency would be worth the price of the SY1000 by itself. Maybe double the price!

 

[TJontheRoad]

Yea but a wireless hex pickup with pitch to midi at acceptable latency would be worth the price of the SY1000 by itself. Maybe double the price!

It already exists in the Fishman TriplePlay. Yet, wireless part I found to be the most unreliable. No way I'm going to want to use that a gig with 100+ other cell phones and other gadgets in the room.

13 pins cables are clunky but very reliable.

 

[mbenigni]

It's probably just wireless GK with 1/4 input for magnetic oickups.

"Just"?

 

[JiveTurkey]

"Just"?

If all it's going to do is beat around the bush and make GR300 noises (albeit wirelessly); I am not interested. The guitar synth ship for me has sailed so far beyond without any GR replacement. I am probably going to be stuck on the 55 for the rest of my life at this rate

 

[mbenigni]

If all it's going to do is beat around the bush and make GR300 noises (albeit wirelessly); I am not interested. The guitar synth ship for me has sailed so far beyond without any GR replacement. I am probably going to be stuck on the 55 for the rest of my life at this rate

I get you, and for my part, almost anything BOSS/Roland might do is too little too late at this point. But there are a ton of people at VGuitar Forums and TGP who've been obsessing over the idea of wireless GK for a couple of decades now.

Personally, I'm done with hex pickups and cables and little menu screens and all the bollocks. I'm running Camelot Pro and Jam Origin on a cheap iPad, and I can mix and match my favorite tones from whatever plugins I like, and organize and control them them per setlists, songs, parts, whatever... And I literally cannot make the thing play a bad note. It's nuts. If I were more patient, I'd work up a whole series of videos just showing this solution off. But I'm not. I wish I could have the whole TGF crew over for a beer and a little show and tell. Closest I'll get is maybe a "Do Something" submission or two.

 

[metropolis_4]

It’s funny how the GR and SY are such diverse versatile tools that we all have different wishes for a successor.

If all this is is instrument modeling with a wireless GK I’d be thrilled

 

[JiveTurkey]

It’s funny how the GR and SY are such diverse versatile tools that we all have different wishes for a successor.

If all this is is instrument modeling with a wireless GK I’d be thrilled

I LOVE the bass sounds. Tele sounds are actually great in a mix as well. I can see those being a huge draw for your work certainly!

 

[JiveTurkey]

Per VGF; maybe a new cable is in order instead of the 13 pin

Which would suggest not what I thought. And needing to remount the new GKs on everything I own.


"Boss BGK-30 Serial GK Cable, Serial GK cable with straight 1/4-inch TRS connectors; delivers optimum performance with BOSS guitar synthesizer products using the Serial GK Interface; Premium BOSS construction features include braided shielding, 24K gold-plated connectors, and a woven outer jacket for tangle-free use; Compatible products: GM-800, GK-5, GK-5B, GKC-AD, GKC-DA, Length: 9 m (30 feet)"

They even mentioned the GK-5B for bass and GKC-AD and GKC-DA, which means devices for converting the new standard to old 13-pin products"

 

[paisleywookiee]

I very much doubt this is another SY. I'm thinking new pickup, new tracking, pitch to MIDI only with outputs to USB and MIDI. A modern GI-10/20.

EDIT

And no, I have no insider info on this one.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I very much doubt this is another SY. I'm thinking new pickup, new tracking, pitch to MIDI only with outputs to USB and MIDI. A modern GI-10/20.

EDIT

And no, I have no insider info on this one.

Blink twice if you already know something we don't

 

[Bob Zaod]

Honestly my interest is already waning. I was hoping for a wireless GK pup. There are some 3rd party wireless GK's floating out there but meh...

 

[paisleywookiee]

Blink twice if you already know something we don't

No but seriously, I wish I did. I'd be PMing you right now, and swearing you to Wookiee Secrecy (that's a thing).