Behringer Klone

[the-trooper]

Not everything is measurable on a multi meter

 

[dronerstone]

"Voodoo: always there for you when you run out of provable arguments"

 

[Eagle]

"Voodoo: always there for you when you run out of provable arguments"

It’s easy to prove. Just listen with your ears not your prejudice.

 

[JasonE]

I think the perception of Peavey depends on how old you are. I grew up in the 80s/90s and Peavey was pretty great. Back then, you could buy something like a Peavey VTM and have a killer amp with Jose style mods, loop etc for a reasonable price. Made in USA and bulletproof too. So they made my early years a lot easier.

I completely agree with this. I used to own a lot of Peavey PA gear. They made some pretty good speakers that held up to being hauled around and cranked up. Their stuff was well worth the money, when it was made in the US. I still have a Peavey JSX 212 and Triple XXX 12 setting here. They are both good tube amps and I have played a ton of gigs with them. They have been worth the money I spent many times over.

 

[Eagle]

I completely agree with this. I used to own a lot of Peavey PA gear. They made some pretty good speakers that held up to being hauled around and cranked up. Their stuff was well worth the money, when it was made in the US. I still have a Peavey JSX 212 and Triple XXX 12 setting here. They are both good tube amps and I have played a ton of gigs with them. They have been worth the money I spent many times over.

I’m old enough for everything they did to be USA. They did some good things but they made serious cuts in build quality internally in order to make the price point.

 

[Aleksi]

Maybe some day mankind will be able to measure an electrical signal, but until then we'll just have to use our ears, which are 100% objective.

 

[Eagle]

Maybe some day mankind will be able to measure an electrical signal, but until then we'll just have to use our ears, which are 100% objective.

You’re not measuring enough things. It’s all quantifiable but you need to develop the tools to make the right measurements.
Do you think all 7.5 K alnico 2 pickups sound the same? You need to measure more things if you want to quantify the difference that is easily.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

And you have never tried any of them. You can definitely pick out different caps by type and the same for many others. Everything matters and everything is different. If you can’t hear it or don’t care doesn’t mean it’s not different and the difference can mean better,bigger,wider sounding.
Not everything is measurable on a multi meter that makes a difference. Look at EJ’s pedal board, proximity and power matters too. But hey a photocopy of a Klon made out the the cheapest components capable is exactly the same.

So you’re sure the differences that you (think you) can hear are down to the brand of components and that it’s definitely not the values being slightly different.

How do you know what pedals I have? I’ve got way too much gear in my studio, some of it boutique, some high end clones, some budget stuff. I’ve swapped a ton of parts around on different amps and pedals, a small change in value is more noticeable than changing like for like with brands. I have some gear with surface mount components that sound identical to the HW stuff.

I just don’t believe that you personally can hear a difference with brands of caps or resistors. And once it’s established that you can’t hear a difference then it becomes a “feel” thing.

Happy to do you a blind test of several klon builds, ranging from surface mount build, one with original diodes, and software versions. There’s no way you’re able to identify any of them

 

[SillyOctpuss]

I don't believe anyone can hear differences in brands of caps but I'll take the Pepsi challenge with cap type in the audio path any day. It's very noticeable in certain positions in some circuits. It can affect the noise and high end and can definitely be measured.

 

[Eagle]

So you’re sure the differences that you (think you) can hear are down to the brand of components and that it’s definitely not the values being slightly different.

How do you know what pedals I have? I’ve got way too much gear in my studio, some of it boutique, some high end clones, some budget stuff. I’ve swapped a ton of parts around on different amps and pedals, a small change in value is more noticeable than changing like for like with brands. I have some gear with surface mount components that sound identical to the HW stuff.

I just don’t believe that you personally can hear a difference with brands of caps or resistors. And once it’s established that you can’t hear a difference then it becomes a “feel” thing.

Happy to do you a blind test of several klon builds, ranging from surface mount build, one with original diodes, and software versions. There’s no way you’re able to identify any of them

First you need a one channel tube amp and a real Klon , have you got those?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

First you need a one channel tube amp and a real Klon , have you got those?

Not sure how the amount of channels an amp has would affect things, but maybe the magic of a Klon can detect it?

Marshall JMP 2203
Marshall JMP 2204
Marshall JMP 4145
Marshall VM2266 (basically a JTM45)
Marshall 1987 (modded to JEL modded 2204)
Marshall JMP 1992 (modded to 1959)
1979 Fender Champ
Park 1210 Rock Head

I don’t have a real Klon, but I have at least 5 that should all sound noticeably different to each other right? Or (let me guess) is everything the same except a real Klon?

 

[Eagle]

Not sure how the amount of channels an amp has would affect things, but maybe the magic of a Klon can detect it?

Marshall JMP 2203
Marshall JMP 2204
Marshall JMP 4145
Marshall VM2266 (basically a JTM45)
Marshall 1987 (modded to JEL modded 2204)
Marshall JMP 1992 (modded to 1959)
1979 Fender Champ
Park 1210 Rock Head

I don’t have a real Klon, but I have at least 5 that should all sound noticeably different to each other right? Or (let me guess) is everything the same except a real Klon?

How can you test if a clone is as good as an original without the original? They will all be different but you don’t have a reference.

 

[JiveTurkey]

First you need a one channel tube amp and a real Klon , have you got those?

Then a $20 looper off Amazon?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

How can you test if a clone is as good as an original without the original? They will all be different but you don’t have a reference.

Because I’m saying a circuit is a circuit. If you can’t tell which is which out of 5 different pedals, why would the 6th be any different?

 

[dronerstone]

It’s easy to prove. Just listen with your ears not your prejudice.

Oh boy, the difference is minimal at best.

Please try and wrap your head around the fact that no one's saying your OG Klon sounds shitty. I'm sure it sounds great!

Point is, lots of Klones sound 99.9% identical, ranging from 300$ boutique to 20$ Chinese knock-off.

Some might not have the charge pump, thus less headroom, resulting in a different "feel", maybe not as "big".

But the overall sound -> who cares, especially in a mix?

Lots of magical thinking there.

 

[Eagle]

Because I’m saying a circuit is a circuit. If you can’t tell which is which out of 5 different pedals, why would the 6th be any different?

You can tell that’s the point. It’s better than most clones. But you won’t know if you have not got one for comparison.

 

[Eagle]

Oh boy, the difference is minimal at best.

Please try and wrap your head around the fact that no one's saying your OG Klon sounds shitty. I'm sure it sounds great!

Point is, lots of Klones sound 99.9% identical, ranging from 300$ boutique to 20$ Chinese knock-off.

Some might not have the charge pump, thus less headroom, resulting in a different "feel", maybe not as "big".

But the overall sound -> who cares, especially in a mix?

Lots of magical thinking there.

I said this originally if you read. If you don’t care then use something else.

 

[Eagle]

I don't believe anyone can hear differences in brands of caps but I'll take the Pepsi challenge with cap type in the audio path any day. It's very noticeable in certain positions in some circuits. It can affect the noise and high end and can definitely be measured.

Cheap copies usually have no headroom in the voltage through the components and the specs are actually different even if the key one is the same . Try a higher voltage cap of the same value in your guitar tone and you will hear a difference. Physically larger caps of the same value sound different even if the voltage is not needed.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

You can tell that’s the point. It’s better than most clones. But you won’t know if you have not got one for comparison.

Because of some magic elusive quality that no one else can imitate? I mean, to conclusively prove anything, one would need several real klons to see if they all have the same elusive magic quality that nothing else can get.

If you want to believe in that, fair enough. But it’s a load of meaningless old bollocks. Same goes for vintage amps vs modern ones, I’ve had them side by side and it’s all a wash.

I’d even say the same for old valves vs new ones, and old sm57’s vs new ones. They all vary. 2 vintage ones can sound just as different as 2 modern ones. It’s nice to think the old and rare ones are extra special, and they are in their way. But it’s 99% in our heads.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Cheap copies usually have no headroom in the voltage through the components and the specs are actually different even if the key one is the same . Try a higher voltage cap of the same value in your guitar tone and you will hear a difference. Physically larger caps of the same value sound different even if the voltage is not needed.

I'm not the poster who said only the value of the cap matters. In the post you quoted I actually agree with you that different caps sound different "in the audio path".

I don't believe, however, that if I installed Nichicon FG or equivalent higher end Panasonic electrolytic caps in a circuit and switched them out that anyone could tell the difference (if the values, voltages and specs are the same)

Nichicon FG vs cheap no name electrolytics in the audio path though is a different story.