Axe-FX (A Love Story?) Rd.1

[mbenigni]

I haven’t ran into any serious latency issues using plugs, now that I have a somewhat more firm grasp on buffer settings when tracking vs mixing.

But I don’t plan on using any amp sims on the computer after I’ve tracked. That’s where the FM3 comes back in, reamping the DI track.

I’m just trying to find an easy way to track and playback during that process, without committing to a “final” processed signal. That seems to be the strength of using plugs, at least from what I’m finding at the moment.

Honestly, tracking is about the only time latency is relevant in terms of outboard h/w vs. plugins. Once you’re mixing, etc., latency becomes irrelevant. You just need a means of freezing/unfreezing tracks to accommodate available CPU. Most modern DAWs have features to handle this.

If you have the sounds you need in plug-in format, and you’re happy with the workflow, you should stick with that. I only started printing wet from my QC because I liked the sounds better than anything I was getting from plugs, and because re-amping in real-time is a PITA time sink. Not worth it unless you’re reampimg through an exceptional mic’d up amp in a legit amp closet or something.

Anyway, I’m guessing you’re in the same boat in terms of preferring the tone - and variety of tones - from FM3. I’d recommend a workflow of printing wet, or perhaps both a wet and dry track simultaneously to keep your options open. But if you stick with the wet track and then mix solely with more conventional channel strip tools (dynamics, eq, reverb) in the box, you’ll probably meet with less option paralysis and work faster anyway. (I wish I’d taken my own advice years sooner…)

 

[mbenigni]

Written out it sounds a lot more daunting than it actually is.

If you remember that "Enter is always Enter except this one thing, and Edit is almost never Edit" you can go pretty far.

The thing is, I’m well aware that I have near-zero tolerance for obtuse/ arbitrary design decisions. Even if there are workarounds, I can imagine myself quietly seething everytime I reached for one of those buttons and had to second guess Fractal’s “logic”. My loss, probably, because I’ve been curious/ envious about the amp tones and effects for years… but too often I read posts like yours and say, “yeah, that would make me homicidal.”

Even the stuff I think I want (e.g. a zillion flavors of Marshall and 27,000 parameters relating to speaker impedance or whatever) would just send me down a rabbit hole so deep that I’d play even less guitar. And believe me, that’s saying something.

 

[laxu]

The thing is, I’m well aware that I have near-zero tolerance for obtuse/ arbitrary design decisions. Even if there are workarounds, I can imagine myself quietly seething everytime I reached for one of those buttons and had to second guess Fractal’s “logic”. My loss, probably, because I’ve been curious/ envious about the amp tones and effects for years… but too often I read posts like yours and say, “yeah, that would make me homicidal.”

As much grief as I give Fractal over the onboard UI, the lack of usability improvements etc, I think Axe-Edit is actually the best computer editor on any modeler atm. That's what most Fractal users use and it's fairly easy to work with. I use the onboard UI maybe 5% of the time I use my Axe-Fx 3.

Even the stuff I think I want (e.g. a zillion flavors of Marshall and 27,000 parameters relating to speaker impedance or whatever) would just send me down a rabbit hole so deep that I’d play even less guitar. And believe me, that’s saying something.

Now that's a whole another matter and I think that's where some personal restraint goes a long way. I have found that I am rarely a better amp designer than whoever made the original that the model is based on. So I mostly just use the "Authentic" view with only the controls on the actual amp.

 

[Whizzinby]

The thing is, I’m well aware that I have near-zero tolerance for obtuse/ arbitrary design decisions. Even if there are workarounds, I can imagine myself quietly seething everytime I reached for one of those buttons and had to second guess Fractal’s “logic”. My loss, probably, because I’ve been curious/ envious about the amp tones and effects for years… but too often I read posts like yours and say, “yeah, that would make me homicidal.”

Even the stuff I think I want (e.g. a zillion flavors of Marshall and 27,000 parameters relating to speaker impedance or whatever) would just send me down a rabbit hole so deep that I’d play even less guitar. And believe me, that’s saying something.

FM3 Turtle Edition is still on sale for $900.

The editor is really good, but you know the device editing is a shit show challenge. But from one QC owner to another, I’d say with relative certainty you’d appreciate:

• Effects (Holy shit)
• Channels
• Block libraries
• Amp model depth and variety (Holy shit)

But, you have to be willing to commit to using an editor the majority of the time. (Or at least until you build a couple great presets and aren’t in tweaking mode, and just playing)

Always remember the other option:

Honestly I kick myself for not trying it sooner.

 

[jellodog]

Officially spooked again.

It's really no big deal.

 

[mbenigni]

FM3 Turtle Edition is still on sale for $900.

The editor is really good, but you know the device editing is a shit show challenge. But from one QC owner to another, I’d say with relative certainty you’d appreciate:

• Effects (Holy shit)
• Channels
• Block libraries
• Amp model depth and variety (Holy shit)

But, you have to be willing to commit to using an editor the majority of the time. (Or at least until you build a couple great presets and aren’t in tweaking mode, and just playing)

Always remember the other option:

Honestly I kick myself for not trying it sooner.

I was actually getting close to pulling the trigger. Then our cat died. On my daughter’s birthday. So I spent about a million dollars on toys for her instead. As you do.

 

[laxu]

FM3 Turtle Edition is still on sale for $900.

The editor is really good, but you know the device editing is a shit show challenge. But from one QC owner to another, I’d say with relative certainty you’d appreciate:

• Effects (Holy shit)
• Channels
• Block libraries
• Amp model depth and variety (Holy shit)

But, you have to be willing to commit to using an editor the majority of the time. (Or at least until you build a couple great presets and aren’t in tweaking mode, and just playing)

Always remember the other option:

Honestly I kick myself for not trying it sooner.

As a former QC owner, the effects were a big differentiator for me - and I didn't expect them to be. Fractal is just plain superior for these, especially delay/mod/reverb. Not sure if NDSP has significantly improved these over the past few years tho as my experience is from the QC release vs FM3 at whatever firmware it had back then.

I was just trying out the new fw 23.00 beta 4 plate reverbs and while I don't notice a huge difference in the London Plate I was using (even after resetting the channel and selecting the model again), the new Gold Plate is quite lovely!

I really hope y'all FM3/FM9 owners can get all the fw 23 goodness because it's one of the biggest updates in recent memory - slight amp modeling improvements, big reverb improvements, all the gapless stuff, new JVM Satriani model...

 

[Stone]

I really hope y'all FM3/FM9 owners can get all the fw 23 goodness

 

[Whizzinby]

As a former QC owner, the effects were a big differentiator for me - and I didn't expect them to be. Fractal is just plain superior for these, especially delay/mod/reverb. Not sure if NDSP has significantly improved these over the past few years tho as my experience is from the QC release vs FM3 at whatever firmware it had back then.

I was just trying out the new fw 23.00 beta 4 plate reverbs and while I don't notice a huge difference in the London Plate I was using (even after resetting the channel and selecting the model again), the new Gold Plate is quite lovely!

I really hope y'all FM3/FM9 owners can get all the fw 23 goodness because it's one of the biggest updates in recent memory - slight amp modeling improvements, big reverb improvements, all the gapless stuff, new JVM Satriani model...

Yeah the difference in effects is really dramatic.

Half the the delay and reverbs are poor to mediocre on the QC. There are some functional options, but very few that are truly great.

 

[Whizzinby]

@FractalAudio

Are the drippy Spring verbs and new Plates coming to the FM3?

 

[mbenigni]

Some cities have a really shitty layouts of their streets---maybe because they were designed for horse and buggy and
not a Tesla.

Sure, but there’s that word “shitty” either way. Yes, everything in the universe has its history and cause and effect, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t legitimate room for improvement. Consistency, discoverability, usability, etc. are all real things that designers and developers think about and strive for.

I get that, if the FMx is the device you want/need to use, then you have to knuckle down and take the good with the bad… until/unless Fractal decides to improve matters. But there’s nothing wrong with making note of opportunities for improvement. (Or, if you happen to be a UI design nut like myself, simply choosing a product that makes you twitch less.)

 

[texhex]

@FractalAudio

Are the drippy Spring verbs and new Plates coming to the FM3?

Sell QC… return/sell FM3… purchase AXE III Mk2.

 

[fretworn]

@FractalAudio

Are the drippy Spring verbs and new Plates coming to the FM3?

He is saying they are very CPU intensive … even changing the quality parameter at this point in time only move the needle a little

 

[mbenigni]

I wanna say I had a vehicle that did that. It wasn't linked to the gas pedal, but it did raise the volume. But I can't recall how. Maybe it detected wind noise, like if you had your windows down it would make the stereo louder as the wind noise increased.
It was something like that.

Yeah this was a real feature on some cars for sure. A feature you’d immediately RTFM to figure out how to disable.

 

[Whizzinby]

He is saying they are very CPU intensive … even changing the quality perimeter at this point in time on the move the needle a little

 

[Whizzinby]

Sell QC… return/sell FM3… purchase AXE III Mk2.

I was going to say I like the spot I’m in with digital devices, being able to surf between a couple platforms…

Unless my newly purchased FM3 is already bricked from getting some of the newest updates.

 

[fretworn]

Yeah this was a real feature on some cars for sure. A feature you’d immediately RTFM to figure out how to disable.

My car will do this; but I never have used it.

 

[FuzzyAce]

He is saying they are very CPU intensive … even changing the quality perimeter at this point in time only move the needle a little

 

[GTR37]

He is saying they are very CPU intensive … even changing the quality parameter at this point in time only move the needle a little

I would think at this point the most valuable to the FM3 owners is thegapless switching because that allows you to change the workflow to switching presets and then you
Can manage CPU easier

 

[AZG]

As much grief as I give Fractal over the onboard UI, the lack of usability improvements etc, I think Axe-Edit is actually the best computer editor on any modeler atm. That's what most Fractal users use and it's fairly easy to work with. I use the onboard UI maybe 5% of the time I use my Axe-Fx 3.


Now that's a whole another matter and I think that's where some personal restraint goes a long way. I have found that I am rarely a better amp designer than whoever made the original that the model is based on. So I mostly just use the "Authentic" view with only the controls on the actual amp.

I’ll second this. Edit apps are great. I only use the interface for minor edits.

And because there are so many awesome amps I stick to the basic controls mostly. If I can’t make that work I move on to another model I like more.