Axe-FX (A Love Story?) Rd.1

[JiveTurkey]

I think having one steady workflow is important. We ain't all engineers up in here.

Agree completely. Flip flopping all over the place is an absolute nightmare. AMHIK

 

[JiveTurkey]

Are you still getting this speaker output/playback thing sorted?!

i would have thrown in that towel long ago

 

[la szum]

I route everything (not that I am anyone to follow!) through a dedicated USB Mixer,
because I didn't want the FM3 being my dedicated playback/routing device.

I have literally had ZERO issues since doing so. Now I have 12 channels and can leave the
FM3 (and other devices all set up and ready to go) and never mess with I/O, drivers, or
any of that other stuff. It really helped me. I wasn't jiving with the FM3 as my interface.

 

[JiveTurkey]

FM anything is NOT a get of your own way device when using it as an interface. I know many people use it for that but there's just too much to wade through mentally

 

[DrewJD82]

My AxeFX is my interface, since I do everything in the box anyway, it consolidates everything. I have the Focusrite Scarlet for recording vocals, I just switch the.....oh.....I wonder, @Whizzinby what's Logic's output set to? It should be your FM3, this may be why you're having issues?

 

[Whizzinby]

That is entirely dependent on the person driving the bus.

I say this because my pre-FM3 workflow was a template I had in Logic. It has a clean bus, and ambient bus, a distorted bus, and a bass buss. Each has a plug-in already on it, with an approximation of a tone I’d use. When you track its recording the DI, but your always hearing the processed signal on playback so you’re getting some approximation of what the finished song or part will sound like, without having two tracks per take or doing any output modification etc. Once fully tracked you can switch plugs and dial in as needed. (Which is where I think I’ll let rhe FM3 jump in)

I tried this morning to use the FM3 to record something. I figured out how to record the DI, while hearing the “processed” sound out of my monitors. Great. But on playback I’m hearing the DI not a “processed” sound. Well, route the output signal back like reamping? Ok, change output. But then I want to go back to DI, to change something or track a different part. Change output again. Ok, well record BOTH the processed signal and the DI at the same time. Fine, but now I’m managing two rows per track (DI and processed) and just going to have to reamp anyway at the end.

Seems like plugins are just an easier way to get the DI in to the tracks/project and the song crafted.

 

[Whizzinby]

Are you still getting this speaker output/playback thing sorted?!

I got that sorted! I think it’s just the workflow change that’s bothering me. lol

And I’m probably missing something. This is a look into the mind of a moron.

 

[DrewJD82]

I got that sorted! I think it’s just the workflow change that’s bothering me. lol

And I’m probably missing something. This is a look into the mind of a moron.

I gotcha. I never even thought to approach something that way because I'm always starting with different sounds, or I start with the last-used version of an amp and use it to track the demo/writing track then tweak it for the final tracking. At this point I've stopped recording DI's because I was never using them and when I did, I'd just be going through a re-amp rabbit hole when some simple EQ would do what I wanted/needed 100x faster.

Hahahah that workflow is definitely nice for not writing over a preset mid-song and then needing to re-track the whole damn thing because you no longer have the original sound you used. (I did that last night/this morning) It's how I end up getting about 10 song-name presets that are just redundant high gain presets I copy so I don't fuck 'em up while I'm tracking.

This would be an amazing feature for a Fractal plug-in controller for the AxeFX. I get not having an AxeFX plug-in, but man it'd be nice to use AxeEdit as a plug-in where it could recall settings stored in a Logic session.

 

[Whizzinby]

I route everything (not that I am anyone to follow!) through a dedicated USB Mixer,
because I didn't want the FM3 being my dedicated playback/routing device.

I have literally had ZERO issues since doing so. Now I have 12 channels and can leave the
FM3 (and other devices all set up and ready to go) and never mess with I/O, drivers, or
any of that other stuff. It really helped me. I wasn't jiving with the FM3 as my interface.

I think I’m running into what you did, but not probably articulating it well.

 

[Frodebro]

I say this because my pre-FM3 workflow was a template I had in Logic. It has a clean bus, and ambient bus, a distorted bus, and a bass buss. Each has a plug-in already on it, with an approximation of a tone I’d use. When you track its recording the DI, but your always hearing the processed signal on playback so you’re getting some approximation of what the finished song or part will sound like, without having two tracks per take or doing any output modification etc. Once fully tracked you can switch plugs and dial in as needed. (Which is where I think I’ll let rhe FM3 jump in)

I tried this morning to use the FM3 to record something. I figured out how to record the DI, while hearing the “processed” sound out of my monitors. Great. But on playback I’m hearing the DI not a “processed” sound. Well, route the output signal back like reamping? Ok, change output. But then I want to go back to DI, to change something or track a different part. Change output again. Ok, well record BOTH the processed signal and the DI at the same time. Fine, but now I’m managing two rows per track (DI and processed) and just going to have to reamp anyway at the end.

Seems like plugins are just an easier way to get the DI in to the tracks/project and the song crafted.

My approach is similar, but different. My primary Logic template has a click track on track one, then Superior Drummer, then a piano track. Most of my musical ramblings are written on the piano, then guitar parts are added as needed.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I gotcha. I never even thought to approach something that way because I'm always starting with different sounds, or I start with the last-used version of an amp and use it to track the demo/writing track then tweak it for the final tracking. At this point I've stopped recording DI's because I was never using them and when I did, I'd just be going through a re-amp rabbit hole when some simple EQ would do what I wanted/needed 100x faster.

Hahahah that workflow is definitely nice for not writing over a preset mid-song and then needing to re-track the whole damn thing because you no longer have the original sound you used. (I did that last night/this morning) It's how I end up getting about 10 song-name presets that are just redundant high gain presets I copy so I don't fuck 'em up while I'm tracking.

This would be an amazing feature for a Fractal plug-in controller for the AxeFX. I get not having an AxeFX plug-in, but man it'd be nice to use AxeEdit as a plug-in where it could recall settings stored in a Logic session.

Is this the same thing as what you are describing?

Announcing AxeCapture: A plugin to save Axe-FX presets in your DAW project.

One problem with recording an outboard modeler like an AxeFX is keeping track of what preset was used on each track in a song. This is important if you need to come back later to record a new take or punch in or overdub a track and you want to use the same preset that was originally used...

forum.fractalaudio.com

 

[la szum]

FM anything is NOT a get of your own way device when using it as an interface. I know many people use it for that but there's just too much to wade through mentally

Yup. I gave up. Since I wanted to have other instruments in play all the time a mixer as interface was
an easy call for me to make. Knock on wood, been super happy with the results, too.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Yup. I gave up. Since I wanted to have other instruments in play all the time a mixer as interface was
an easy call for me to make. Knock on wood, been super happy with the results, too.

I give myself enough roadblocks on the playing skill level end of things without causing myself more grief in other directions

 

[Whizzinby]

I gotcha. I never even thought to approach something that way because I'm always starting with different sounds, or I start with the last-used version of an amp and use it to track the demo/writing track then tweak it for the final tracking. At this point I've stopped recording DI's because I was never using them and when I did, I'd just be going through a re-amp rabbit hole when some simple EQ would do what I wanted/needed 100x faster.

Hahahah that workflow is definitely nice for not writing over a preset mid-song and then needing to re-track the whole damn thing because you no longer have the original sound you used. (I did that last night/this morning) It's how I end up getting about 10 song-name presets that are just redundant high gain presets I copy so I don't fuck 'em up while I'm tracking.

This would be an amazing feature for a Fractal plug-in controller for the AxeFX. I get not having an AxeFX plug-in, but man it'd be nice to use AxeEdit as a plug-in where it could recall settings stored in a Logic session.

Yeah my plug-in based template is just loaded with stock tones. They aren’t really meant to be the final tone, just an approximation of here’s a distorted tone, here’s a clean tone, here is a Rivendell tone etc. Has me up and running quick. Some times I will know I don’t want to use that base plug and switch it while tracking, and sometimes I’ll wait to worry about it after I’m finished tracking.

In a sense using plugs seem like re-amping in real time without having to worry about any I/O, playback, committing to tones etc.

I can see once I get “my” tones in the FM3 and have a song sorta worked out how it could be cool to just record direct the finished tone and bypass reamping entirely.

I think this is just workflow related now. Plugs to track, FM3 to finish.

 

[la szum]

I give myself enough roadblocks on the playing skill level end of things without causing myself more grief in other directions

I feel that in my own bones. Factor some age and stamina related issues into the mix
and I can't help but want an unimpeded path home.

 

[Frodebro]

I feel that in my own bones. Factor some age and stamina related issues into the mix
and I can't help but want an unimpeded path home.

There’s a pill for that, you know…

 

[la szum]

Haha! Yeah, not into the whole old guy poser thing. Perfectly content to just be old-ish.

 

[Whizzinby]

@la szum let’s talk mixers, because it looks like my audio interface is not out of the picture.

That leaves me needing to get audio out of either my audio interface or FM3, and not wanting to move cables every time I want to juggle between the two. I’m assuming I could take the outputs of both the Interface and FM3 and run that to the mixer, then run the output from the mixer to my monitors and boom goes the dynamite? Then I only have plug my instrument into whatever I’m wanting to play with? (FM3 or AI)

 

[la szum]

That's pretty much what I do, and once I set the Recording In/ Playback Out on the PC to the
Mixer, then I never have to futz with it again. And I can still do all I want/need with routing in the
DAW of choice (Plug-Ins/Virtual Instruments/and such).

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

Welcome to the world of inconsistency in Fractal operation.

Here's a crash course:

• Edit button almost never does the thing it says on the label.
  • The layout grid is the only exception where Edit = Edit block.
  • Anywhere else it's a shortcut for "Go edit the last block you had open."
  • When inside a block, it's "Go to next block".
  • Double clicking Edit when inside a block means "Go to previous block."
• Enter button opens things.
  • The exception is the layout grid, where Enter = connect/disconnect blocks or create a shunt on an empty grid slot.
• Nav buttons mostly move the cursor around or switch rows of controls.
  • In list views (e.g Amp block Advanced page) the Left/Right buttons jump to next/previous 5 params, mapping them to the A-E knobs.
  • In the Amp block Output EQ page, Up/Down changes the graphic EQ type. Of course the Graphic EQ block does not work like this.
• Big knob adjusts the currently selected parameter.
  • In layout grid view it changes the block in the currently selected slot.
  • In preset/model/cab list it scrolls through the items.
  • On Axe-Fx 3 this knob has a button on it you can assign to go to Layout grid. Why this does not exist on FM3/FM9? No idea. I've also requested that this could be mapped to more functions but of course Fractal hasn't implemented it.
• A-E knobs have a button you can press. The function is what is shown above the button.
  • When in Home view (any page), you can double-click these to quickly go to the most common blocks:
    • A = Amp
    • B = Drive (Boost)
    • C = Cab
    • D = Delay
    • E = REverb

My approach to editing on the onboard UI is to avoid the Layout grid like the plague and just use the Edit button to cycle through blocks. This keeps the process more consistent as you don't hit that "Enter does not do the thing you think it would" inconsistency.

It was so much worse before the "Go to previous block" double-click Edit function was implemented. You had to Exit to the layout grid, cursor over to the previous block, remember to hit Edit instead of Enter and then edit the block. Then do that all over again whenever you needed to go to a previous block.

The cycling order of the Edit button is row->column, instead of e.g "next connected block or next block in parallel". This is generally fine on the FM3 where your signal path is most of the time just a straight line, but can be annoying on the FM9/Axe-Fx 3 with more complex signal paths.