Are tubes the answer?

[SKU]

Digital is ... like ... the worst. Not even kidding. Nothing beats plugging directly into a hard-hitting, punchy tube amp and guitar cab. And no! "FRFR" is not the same and for whatever reason be it impedance / level matching a digital preamp into a power amp ( even tube ) is not quite QUITE the same.

 

[laxu]

It's the lack of clarity mainly. I use kraken in the loop so I can do this what you suggested. And I've done it. I compared it then to revv purple2. I've tried eq block and everything but I liked kraken more. And I use mainly kraken's first channel witch is very marshall like. I can't get that kinda clarity and 3d like sound of fm3. I can get decent tones, better than Leon in that video I mentioned, but...there is always something lacking. I call it clarity. Note separation.

How are you setting your FM3 amp block master volumes? A lot of the amp models default to a pretty much cranked setting so you might find they turn to mush if you pile on a lot of gain.

There should be no lack of clarity or dimension to the sound.

For reference, I don't ever feel I need to use EQ blocks with my Fractal. Amp/Cab block settings alone are usually more than enough to get tones I like, regardless of genre.

 

[Mongillo19]

Digital is ... like ... the worst. Not even kidding. Nothing beats plugging directly into a hard-hitting, punchy tube amp and guitar cab. And no! "FRFR" is not the same and for whatever reason be it impedance / level matching a digital preamp into a power amp ( even tube ) is not quite QUITE the same.

You can certainly have this opinion but in context, OP isn't cranking it, isn't using a guitar cab, will not be using a tube power amp section (or even a simulated one perhaps). I think there is more in play here than tubez vs digital

 

[kartikg3]

Digital is ... like ... the worst. Not even kidding. Nothing beats plugging directly into a hard-hitting, punchy tube amp and guitar cab. And no! "FRFR" is not the same and for whatever reason be it impedance / level matching a digital preamp into a power amp ( even tube ) is not quite QUITE the same.

Had this opinion for years, until I plugged in my modeller into a SS poweramp+cab. Now I am free.

 

[Stratzrus]

I’m out!

I always wonder what's going on when a person who recently joined a forum goes on and on with multiple posts bashing a product from a particular brand. That's why I never jumped in.

 

[Ibanez_76]

How are you setting your FM3 amp block master volumes? A lot of the amp models default to a pretty much cranked setting so you might find they turn to mush if you pile on a lot of gain.

There should be no lack of clarity or dimension to the sound.

For reference, I don't ever feel I need to use EQ blocks with my Fractal. Amp/Cab block settings alone are usually more than enough to get tones I like, regardless of genre.

2.5-3 master volume. If I dont use eq it's just all midrange. Might sound good in the mix but sucks ass played in the room

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

My first direct rig was a Studio Preamp with an Alesis Quadraverb GT in the loop; speaker cab simulator on in the Quadraverb and used speaker emulated outs of the Studio Pre -- running those two (really shitty) analog cab sims in series seemed to kinda work, I'm guessing because it effectively steepened up the EQ cutoffs significantly. So yeah, the Studio Preamp will probably sound alright using it the way you propose.

I occasionally get a pang for that rig, but then look at prices and remember that I paid $119 for mine on ebay in 1997 when all of that stuff was going for super cheap since racks were uncool. I DID splurge on a Syn-2 and a few modules but . . . it was a pretty big splurge that I almost regretted when an unexpected $3k medical bill landed in the mailbox a couple months after I bought it...and I'm, not to be rude, pretty gainfully employed.

As a value proposition -- if you've got plugins that you think sound good, and you're going to be stuck playing at super low volumes or with headphones, AND you already have a Kraken preamp, AAAAANNNNNDDD you are currently unemployed...just chill for a bit. Maybe consider selling the FM3 if you don't love it and snagging a super cheap audio interface (I happily used a Behringer for many years alongside Fractal, etc. and don't consider the Universal Audio Solo I have now to be a huge sonic upgrade).

 

[Mongillo19]

/thread

Or whatever the cool kids say to signify a good point that sums everything up

 

[Ibanez_76]

I always wonder what's going on when a person who recently joined a forum goes on and on with multiple posts bashing a product from a particular brand. That's why I never jumped in.

If you refer to me Im not bashing anything. It's my experience with my unit and others have different opinnions. I never said Fractal sucks. I said I cant make it sound good enough for me

 

[Jarick]

I’ve go no experience with the 7’s outside of the minute I listened to them at GC when I compared all 3 sizes. I really wasn’t focused on them because as soon as I heard the 8’s, I was hearing all the stuff I was missing in the 5’s. They’ve definitely got quite a bit of body to them, there’s no issues there.

My entire issue is just translating what I’ve been dialing in on those 5’s for years now, in on the 8’s, in the context of a mix. Not solo playing or anything.

I tested a bunch of monitors a few years back and was most impressed with a small pair of Genelecs (especially for the size) and the Yamaha HS8's. I remember really liking the Yamahas but they seemed so big. The HS5's sounded a lot more call it boxy or harsh, just way less low end and more high end/midrange push. The HS7 were in between, but the HS8 seemed really big sounding with a good midrange. Most of the other monitors were quite scooped in comparison and the Yamahas were really good about providing the mids, especially in the guitar frequencies.

So when I splurged on new monitors a year back I went with Genelecs but just haven't been very impressed with the sound. The Yamaha HS8's are massive but they sound quite good, meaning they have a wide spectrum of sound and seem to have good detail.

Previously I had JBL 305's and while those had a lot of low end for a small monitor, they seemed to lack midrange detail. I also got a pair of cheap 306's to compare and those are really impressive for low end but kind of rolled off in the highs. That's what spurred me to just jump in with the HS8's.

TL/DR - I think the HS7's are probably a fine speaker but the HS8's are really good for the budget level and the HS5's are just a very different sound

Cabs are the answer, if you’re wanting that more immersive in the room experience. What you feed to that cab (amp, modeler etc.) is kind of irrelevant.

Same as going to monitors. Once you run it back through IR’s to monitors it’s kinda irrelevant what’s feeding it. (Modeler, amp)

Playback method is the only distinguishing factor, not the source.

Agreed, cabs seem to be the answer for the OP

 

[Ibanez_76]

My first direct rig was a Studio Preamp with an Alesis Quadraverb GT in the loop; speaker cab simulator on in the Quadraverb and used speaker emulated outs of the Studio Pre -- running those two (really shitty) analog cab sims in series seemed to kinda work, I'm guessing because it effectively steepened up the EQ cutoffs significantly. So yeah, the Studio Preamp will probably sound alright using it the way you propose.

I occasionally get a pang for that rig, but then look at prices and remember that I paid $119 for mine on ebay in 1997 when all of that stuff was going for super cheap since racks were uncool. I DID splurge on a Syn-2 and a few modules but . . . it was a pretty big splurge that I almost regretted when an unexpected $3k medical bill landed in the mailbox a couple months after I bought it...and I'm, not to be rude, pretty gainfully employed.

As a value proposition -- if you've got plugins that you think sound good, and you're going to be stuck playing at super low volumes or with headphones, AND you already have a Kraken preamp, AAAAANNNNNDDD you are currently unemployed...just chill for a bit. Maybe consider selling the FM3 if you don't love it and snagging a super cheap audio interface (I happily used a Behringer for many years alongside Fractal, etc. and don't consider the Universal Audio Solo I have now to be a huge sonic upgrade).

That money for preamp is covered. I get it back when I decide what to sell. It's not that I cant pay bills because of it. And If I sell my fm3 eventually, I'll get 2nd hand audio interface for sure. I buy all my gear 2nd hand so I dont lose money

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

That money for preamp is covered. I get it back when I decide what to sell. It's not that I cant pay bills because of it. And If I sell my fm3 eventually, I'll get 2nd hand audio interface for sure. I buy all my gear 2nd hand so I dont lose money

It sounds like you know what you're going to do, so good luck with it all. Cheers.

 

[laxu]

If I dont use eq it's just all midrange. Might sound good in the mix but sucks ass played in the room

That sounds very weird. You don't have excessive low/high cuts in the cab block, right?

Maybe you could share your best effort preset here so we can check it out? And maybe a clip of what kind of tone you are aiming for? Or a song by some artists who has the kind of tone you love?

 

[Ibanez_76]

Usually I limit cab maybe something like 75-11500hz. I dont have time now to do anything guitar related, but I love petrucci's tone on images&words record. It was recorded using mesa quad preamp. Live he used triaxis back then. If you watch Leon's video of petrucci tone in 5mins and compare it to petrucci testing his signature mesa there is SOME difference. I know things would be different if I had a power amp and 2x12 mesa cab. But thats not gonna happen. I know that set up would work for fm3 but it's not possibility for me now.

 

[Mongillo19]

It was recorded using mesa quad preamp.

You probably know but so much goes into a recorded guitar tone. Having the same gear is just the very tip of the iceberg. Also, a guitar tone that sounds good to you alone may not hold any weight in a mix. JP isn't playing in isolation. Many factors go in to make that sound.

Have you tried the NDSP JP plugin?

Trying to sound like JP sounds like an endless adventure to frustration

 

[laxu]

Usually I limit cab maybe something like 75-11500hz. I dont have time now to do anything guitar related, but I love petrucci's tone on images&words record. It was recorded using mesa quad preamp. Live he used triaxis back then. If you watch Leon's video of petrucci tone in 5mins and compare it to petrucci testing his signature mesa there is SOME difference. I know things would be different if I had a power amp and 2x12 mesa cab. But thats not gonna happen. I know that set up would work for fm3 but it's not possibility for me now.

The Mesa Mark and Triaxis models on the Fractal are very good though, so I don't see getting those tones out of it shouldn't be some insurmountable task.

How familiar are you working with the Mesa Mark series amps with the knobs vs graphic EQ?

 

[Will Chen]

Tubes are never the answer and always the answer depending on one's perspective. There's no shortage of people who will swear up and down that their way is the only way to achieve a goal.

IMHO...if you can't get damn close to your tonal goal with very modest gear AND then be able to exactly explain what it is about one's signal chain that needs upgrading (not terms like "warm" or "more juice". like my noise floor is too high, I can hear a spike at 5K that is difficult to remove, etc) then you are wasting money on a problem you will never solve and spend years on a gear carousel chasing grails rather than making music.