How do I make the direct to PA sound of a modeler not terrible?

[paisleywookiee]

No.

And tonight at band practice I played it through the band's XR18 w/ IEMs and it was the absolute worst tone I've ever heard gotten in my entire life. WTH. I think my old DOD FX7 processor from the 90's sounded better! I had to abort and plug into the Bandmaster they had there.

Yeah man, you can’t plug effects pedals directly into a P.A. you need a DI.

 

[bucephalus]

Yeah man, you can’t plug effects pedals directly into a P.A. you need a DI.

This.

 

[ragingplatypi]

.

Having no effects loop is going to be a challenge with this pedal because I'm applying verb, chous, & delay etc, after the cab, which doesn't quite sound right. l

Boss LS-2 might help.

 

[Count_Drugula]

Yeah man, you can’t plug effects pedals directly into a P.A. you need a DI.

I'll bring one next time. I'm confused, it sounded good through my PA the day before, same board and guitar. Maybe because I used a 30' cable this time instead of 15’?

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'll bring one next time. I'm confused, it sounded good through my PA the day before, same board and guitar. Maybe because I used a 30' cable this time instead of 15’?

If you're sensitive enough to cable capacitance that it's going to be the dealbreaker from one day to another; I'd go ahead and give up running direct altogether.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I'll bring one next time. I'm confused, it sounded good through my PA the day before, same board and guitar. Maybe because I used a 30' cable this time instead of 15’?

I don’t see how it could ever sound good, when using guitar pedals after the ToneX. Instrument level vs line level will cause issues.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I'll bring one next time. I'm confused, it sounded good through my PA the day before, same board and guitar. Maybe because I used a 30' cable this time instead of 15’?

Voila.

 

[jay mitchell]

Yeah man, you can’t plug effects pedals directly into a P.A.

Actually, you can use most pedals into a PA without a DI. The active electronics in pedals have no difficulty driving the 10k input impedance of most console/active speaker inputs. Just use a line, as opposed to a mic, input.

you need a DI.

The one risk that going without one entails is ground loop hum, which will become evident long before you get a chance to check out the tone.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Actually, you can use most pedals into a PA without a DI. The active electronics in pedals have no difficulty driving the 10k input impedance of most console/active speaker inputs. Just use a line, as opposed to a mic, input.

The one risk that going without one entails is ground loop hum, which will become evident long before you get a chance to check out the tone.

I've never had good luck without one, and they're generally affordable enough to not go without, IMO.

 

[jay mitchell]

I've never had good luck without one, and they're generally affordable enough to not go without, IMO.

I've run my Axe-Fx Standard and Amplifire 3 directly into PA systems a number of times with no problems.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I've run my Axe-Fx Standard and Amplifire 3 directly into PA systems a number of times with no problems.

Dunno, I'm just saying whenever I've tried to run something like a Boss, TC, Digitech etc pedal as last in chain, direct to a PA, it always sounded mediocre, and definitely better with a DI. Even the HX Stomp sounded better into a DI, into the PA.

 

[bucephalus]

Dunno, I'm just saying whenever I've tried to run something like a Boss, TC, Digitech etc pedal as last in chain, direct to a PA, it always sounded mediocre, and definitely better with a DI. Even the HX Stomp sounded better into a DI, into the PA.

Yeah I've found the same, a modeller last in chain no problem.

 

[jay mitchell]

Dunno, I'm just saying whenever I've tried to run something like a Boss, TC, Digitech etc pedal as last in chain, direct to a PA, it always sounded mediocre,

What means "mediocre?"

and definitely better with a DI. Even the HX Stomp sounded better into a DI, into the PA.

In what ways was the DI sound "better?" Passive or active DI?

 

[paisleywookiee]

What means "mediocre?"

Average. Not outstanding.

In what ways was the DI sound "better?" Passive or active DI?

Improved over mediocre. Passive DI.

 

[paisleywookiee]

In all seriousness, the last board I did with someone, they ran into a tuner, then GT-1000 Core, then into a Waza BP-1w boost, then into a passive DI. He tried it both ways, with and without the DI. Given near identical cable lengths (I think the 1/4" was 21ft as opposed to 20ft of the XLR) the DI'd version sounded clearer, quieter, and didn't have any high end roll-off or dullness. This was a similar result to a Strymon Iridium-based rig, where they were also running effects after. Not sure what the PA's used were, because I generally don't go to their shows.

 

[jay mitchell]

In all seriousness, the last board I did with someone, they ran into a tuner, then GT-1000 Core, then into a Waza BP-1w boost,

It makes sense that a given stompbox might be incapable of driving pro-audio iput impedances.

He tried it both ways, with and without the DI. Given near identical cable lengths (I think the 1/4" was 21ft as opposed to 20ft of the XLR) the DI'd version sounded clearer, quieter, and didn't have any high end roll-off or dullness.

So the Boss pedal has unacceptably high output impedance.

FYI, the final device in the chain before the PA really needs to have a low output impedance (< 1kohm). If the manufacturer doesn't provide this information, the only safe assumption is that it's too high. A passive DI can't always be counted on to fix this kind of issue. At best, it's a band-aid that may not help next time.

 

[paisleywookiee]

It makes sense that a given stompbox might be incapable of driving pro-audio iput impedances.

So the Boss pedal has unacceptably high output impedance.

FYI, the final device in the chain before the PA really needs to have a low output impedance (< 1kohm). If the manufacturer doesn't provide this information, the only safe assumption is that it's too high. A passive DI can't always be counted on to fix this kind of issue. At best, it's a band-aid that may not help next time.

Maybe, maybe not. So far so good! Do you have anything to add for the OP?

 

[jay mitchell]

Do you have anything to add for the OP?

The OP is little more than a troll. There is no single secret to making anything sound "not terrible," and it's never clear what is even meant when someone uses such a vague descriptor. Mark my words: a DI won't fix anything here.

It is a fact that, if a signal chain - could be a mic'ed amp, a loaded amp w/IR, or a modeler - can be made to sound "good" through studio monitors but then sounds "terrible" through some other speakers (PA), the difference is the speakers, not the processing.

If, OTOH, the mic'ed amp sounds good through the PA but the modeler does not, it behooves the disappointed user to learn to specify and quantify those differences in order to reduce or eliminate them. We have no idea what the OP considers "good" or "terrible," so any advice anyone offers here is nothing but blind speculation. Maybe some clips would help?

 

[EOengineer]

My farts sound awesome at home but not through our PA system I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong.

 

[bucephalus]

My farts sound awesome at home but not through our PA system I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong.

Your sphincter needs to be at < 1kohm